We talked in class today about Esther's obsession with death and thinly veiled thoughts of suicide—the window that wouldn't open in her hotel that infuriated her. Now we discover before this, the Christmas before, she went down a ski hill in "a flight I knew I couldn't stop by skill or any belated access of will," preceded by "the thought I might kill myself [forming] in my mind cooly as a tree or a flower" (97). So Esther has indeed made an effort, clumsy as it may seem, to fullfill the "negation" of her self that she so often mentions.
1. When I said in both classes that Esther's ability to get an A in a science class that made her physically ill, that left her "panic struck" (35), was a terrifying moment in the book, was a terrifying moment for Esther, I wasn't kidding. Those of you taking Physics, or some other similarly extremely difficult class, imagine the amount of work you do, or would have to do, in order to get an A in that class: now imagine doing all that work when you are as "scared and depressed" (36) by it as Esther is: and imagine, finally, that your teacher holds you up as a model of success and accomplishment—thinks you're having the time of your life doing it? What would that be like? Really: what would that be like? Maybe it wouldn't be as awful as I'm making it out to be—but maybe it would. What do you think?
2. Why would Esther consider suicide? We know she's depressed—perhaps even schizophrenic (her illness is never defined in the book, but some have said that her observations like the ones we talked about today—the distance she feels from herself, the way the ordinary [looking in the mirror at herself] take on extraordinary qualities—speak to schizophrenia): so her illness may be driving her to these extreme actions. Yet could you see anything in what her life is like that would make her consider, in the midst of her illness, to throw herself down a ski slope knowing full well that she could not stop herself? Think about what we see of her life in Chapters 6, 7 and 8. Go ahead and quote once in your response.
Write a couple hundred words. We'll see you all tomorrow. Maybe we'll talk about turkey necks and turkey gizzards.
1. I think that if the teacher held me up as an example, as a model student for what I had done that made me so miserable, I would think that the only way to succeed in the world was to be miserable and depressed. An instant like that would make me feel like putting myself through something that made sick to do was okay and it is something that I should continue to do the rest of my life. It would make me think that all this physical and emotional pain is acceptable, and I would continue to put myself through this because a teacher told me I was a great student because of it. This situation told Esther that feeling depressed is not that bad, because she got an A out of it and praise from her teacher, and I think it’s desensitized her to her condition and her true feelings.
ReplyDelete2. Her relationship with Buddy is something that I think lends itself to a state of not wanting to live anymore. It’s so empty of any real connection, and Esther is someone who is not sure of what she wants, but she is certain she does not want to marry Buddy. The time she’s has chosen to not be passive when making a decision, Buddy immediately laughs it off and tells her that she’s “crazy” and that she’ll “change her mind.” Buddy is telling her that what she’s feeling is irrelevant, and that since she is supposed to marry him, she has to. Her feelings are being ignored by the people around her, no one is taking her seriously. I think that that’s more than enough to send you over the edge and really loose desire to continue on in a life where you are not being heard.
1. I imagine it would feel pretty awful. She must’ve felt sort of trapped. Giving up to relieve the sickness she felt was not an option; that would mean taking something less than an A, maybe even dropping out and/or failing. It would mean disappointing herself and everyone around her. She can’t imagine a scenario in which she tells someone about her problems and is understood. Maybe she’s right; maybe most people wouldn’t believe her if she told them how she felt about physics. However, I find it highly unlikely that no one would’ve paid attention and given her some help. That false sense of aloneness she feels can only add to her depression. When I’m having trouble in a class, I know that I can talk to someone about it and get help. She just feels alone and physically sick with high expectations riding on her and the dreadful possibility of failure looming below her. So to sum up; it would totally suck.
ReplyDelete2. I don’t know if there are any actual entities in her life actively depressing her. I think it’s more that absence of anything truly good. Nothing makes her happy. That’s not really anyone else’s fault, and it’s certainly not her fault. It’s just an unfortunate characteristic of her mind. She’s alone, she doesn’t feel like she can trust anyone, she views the world as dirty and impure, she feels immense pressure to do well at everything, and nothing really interests or excites her. She feels completely out of place. “I felt like a racehorse in a world without racetracks or a champion college footballer suddenly confronted by Wall Street and a business suit, his days of glory shrunk to a little gold cup on his mantel with a date of glory engraved on it like the date on a tombstone”(77). The only thing she’s really good at is being a “good student” and that life is disappearing. She thinks that everything is made ok whenever she cleanses herself in the bath, but she’s really just bottling everything up. That’s all certainly enough to drive someone to suicidal behavior.
Esther has to deal with a class that makes her ill. She is living a lie and being appraised for it. To be applauded for a love of something I secretly hate would eat at me from the inside. I would not have the heart to face my teacher and tell them that their class, their profession, makes me physically sick. I would have to push through the class and live with that sickness. It would be hell, no doubt.
ReplyDeleteEsther lives a very unfortunate life. She has memorized her way through school and is now left with the decision of choosing her path. She does not have much to bring to the table; she cannot brag about any skills she attained on the wonderful travels she never went on. "The one thing I was good at was winning scholarships and prizes, and that era was coming to an end" (77). She can only regurgitate information. She cannot ski, ride horses, speak german, or any of the things she dreams of, and that, to me, is failure. My greatest fear is dying without feeling like I had something to live for, and Esther seems to feel she has no chance to fix that. She has not, in her mind, accomplished anything worthwhile, and she is unhappy due to that stagnation.
1. I feel like it would be extremely difficult to even walk into that class. It would be some grand façade, feigning interest and enjoyment involving when really all you feel is that you are being choked and drowned by some unmovable force. It would be difficult to do the work, obviously, because it would be virtually impossible to concentrate and focus because the work makes you viscerally ill. I think being in the class would be harder for me if I was in that situation, because I wouldn’t be able to look the teacher in the eye while they think I am enjoying the class and enjoying learning all of this worldly knowledge. I would feel guilty more than anything else.
ReplyDelete2. Esther reminds me somewhat of Susanna Kaysen. I feel as though Esther really has not had any majorly traumatic events in her life (we haven’t seen any thus far) that could bring her to as low a point as she currently is at. As Sohail said, it really just seems like her life is very dull and gray (through her eyes at the very least) except for a few, very miniscule joys, and all of this lack of happiness and positivity has brought her into this abyss. She seems to me, not as though she has anything “wrong” with her because of her own being, but it seems like she has some monster inside or something inside of her that is controlling her. I could definitely see her as schizophrenic because of the thoughts running through her head, and the sheer mass and variety of them. It’s truly mindboggling to look into her thoughts. On my page 113 (which is different from your book), when she is talking about skiing, she says that “It never occurred to me to say no.” This feels like it could define Esther. She has lived her life saying yes to others and following in the silhouette of a checklist she completed long ago, and it has never once crossed her mind to form the words no with her mouth and speak them out loud. She has debated changing things, but never saying NO outright to anything pushing her down.
1. Personally I wouldn’t like being held up as a model student in a class that I hated and that I thought was synonymous with death. I think its different if you’re held up as a model student in a class that you really like and that you enjoy and work hard in and aren’t there just for the grade but because you actually like it. I think in Esther’s case, it all just seems like a lie. The teacher is upholding her to the highest standards and shes just accepting it with a smile and doesn’t even care that it isn’t genuine. I would have trouble lying to a teachers face like that. I also think that Esther is using this to justify her numbness and to make it seem ok. As long as she pushes everything human about her away, she’ll get the grade that she thinks she cares about and that should make her happy but it never does.
ReplyDelete2. I think that Esther is bored with her life and that she lacks any kind of thrill or excitement in it. She studies so much because she told herself that that’s all she should do but another part of her seeks excitement and a way to feel something. She says that she’s numb and I think she just trying to gain a sense of feeling whether it be emotional or physical. When she says “The last thing I wanted was infinite security and to be the place an arrow shoots off from. I wanted change and excitement and to shoot off in all directions myself, like the colored arrows from a Fourth of July rocket (83)”. This shows that she knows that the person within her isn’t pleased with her life and she knows that she’s lacking something. I think its good that recognizes that in herself and that she is aware but I think it also makes her think she has to overcompensate because her life is so bland.
1.I think that I would be very scare if the teacher expected me to do great in every test. I personally think that this would be scary because knowing myself I would work hard to try to please the teacher. Having some hard classes, I know how hard it is to life up to expectations, especially at Paideia. However, I like my classes and I do not find it as excruciating as Esther. I cannot having to study as hard simply to have a high grade in a class that makes me sick. I think that this is pretty awful and I hope to never experience something like this in college.
ReplyDelete2. I think that even though we talked about Esther not knowing who she is, she has a sense of what is going wrong with her life. I think that a major reason of why attempting, or going to at least, suicide is because she is afraid her life is going nowhere and she believes it is almost over. She clearly understands all of the possibilities and abilities she possess, “I was myself sitting in the crotch of this fig tree, starving to death, just because I couldn’t make up my mind which of the figs I would choose” (77). I think that she knows that she is going nowhere because like Susanna, she knows what it means to be marry. She is afraid that if she does not make up her mind about what to do with her life she is going to end up doing something she hates. She much rather end her life before living it.
1. I imagine that Esther's situation would be terrible. I think for me it would be less awful than how Esther feels, because Esther has the problem of constantly feeling trapped. For me, having to put so much effort into something I hate would be really draining. I would also feel bad about lying to the teacher that way. It would feel like a total waste of energy.
ReplyDelete2. Like I mentioned in my previous answer, I think Esther feels very trapped by life. She doesn't know what she wants, and she is very confused, "I saw myself sitting in he crotch of this fig tree, starving to death, just because I couldn't make up my mind which of the figs I would choose" (77). In the same chapter, we learn that Esther's dad died when she was nine, and that she hasn't really been happy since then. I think Esther doesn't see a purpose for herself in life, which would be incredibly depressing. She knows that she is smart, but she doesn't know how to apply herself to the world.
Personally, I do not think the actual act of doing this would be that bad. Yes, I think to some extent it would be stressful to have to hold up these standards, to do as well as Esther is expected to do here and to have to act like you are actually enjoying it, but I think there are worse components about doing so and holding up these false standards than the act itself. I think one could argue that to some extent for a great deal of students, even at Paideia, actually especially at Paideia, this is the case. Many students endure classes that they hate, and many of those students do extremely well despite this, very much like Esther does. And I have no doubts that many of these teachers are under the impression that these students enjoy their classes as well. I would even argue that this has happened on a much smaller scale to me, and yes it was a struggle but one that could be endured. But I think where this becomes so awful for Esther is with the false presumption from her teacher that she is enjoying the class. Esther, no doubt, makes it seem this way, she plays off of the fact that she has terrific grades and almost manipulates her teachers as she does here, and as she does with the chemistry. It becomes an issue of morality, I think, and the guilt that Esther carries for holding up this false notion that she actually enjoys the class and using that notion to her advantage. This is what makes this such an awful experience, not the work load or the struggle itself.
ReplyDeleteI think it's not too far off to suggest that Esther feels trapped. Through her attitude towards this society and the roles that have been set for her in this time period, it is clear she is looking for an alternative. She struggles with finding a path, a life that she will truly be happy with all of her life. There are many paths set out for her obviously, many roads she could take that society says will satisfy her; and yet she doesn't see any of them as satisfying, or as the truly correct path for her. "From the tip of every branch, like a fat purple fig, a wonderful future beckoned and winked. I saw myself sitting in the crotch of this fig tree, starving to death, just because I couldn't make up my mind which of them to choose. But choosing one meant losing all the rest." I think she also feels trapped with this whole conflict between what she is to say and how she is supposed to react on the outside versus what she is feeling and what she wants to scream out that is happening on the inside. I have brought this point up before, as I see it as one of the main points of the book thus far. She's looking for an alternative to all of these problems in her life, all of these problems that society has really created on its own, and she's simply not finding one. So, I think her initial response is to kill herself, and I think it's really not that irrational of a reaction, to be honest.
1. Knowing that my teacher thought that I expressed a great desire for learning would add guilt to the whole equation of being scared and in physical pain through learning physics. The desperation overrides any other emotion. It would feel like death. I can understand the desire for an A, but doing that much work is awful. Getting that stressed about science is not worth it. If happiness meant that Esther would have gotten an A- or B+ life would have gone forward. Esther is starting to remind me of both Kevin and Anderson from "The Paper Chase." Esther is like a robot whose circuits are shorting out by over stress. I work hard, but I couldn't see myself working myself into an early grave just for an A.
ReplyDelete2. I don't think that Esther thinks that she definitely wants to commit suicide. She has to work hard to feel anything and zooming down that hill makes Esther feel alive. She says that, "'This is what it is like to be happy" (97). She likes that rush that she gets when her life is in danger. Almost dying makes her want to live. Afterwards she wants to do it again and doesn't even realize that she has a broken ankle. The feeling Esther had zooming down the hill took away her mental and physical pain. Taking a bath does the same thing for her. While a bath calms her, the slope distracted her with adrenaline. Esther wants to get away. She can be free in those little moments that she can almost relax. Death is such an acquaintance to Esther that she doesn't mind coming close to it. It gives Esther the thrill that she needs to keep herself going.
1. I very much agree with Sam in relating these problems to a place like Paideia to realize things may not be too different. I feel that many students see the acceptable and normal route ahead of them and take it without thinking of the consequences. Inside the class students may have a terrible experience but are looking towards the end result. The best and most difficult classes, the struggle and fight for good grades are what colleges look for and students realize this pushing themselves into situations they might not want to be in. I enjoy learning very much. Hopefully I will never personally have to endure what Esther did. Although I feel that I could never be frightened by a class. I may not understand it and it may be difficult but I would struggle with it and find something I enjoyed about it. If a teacher used me in class as a role model student I would feel fine about it if I knew the material like Esther does. My personality wouldn't fall back onto fear.
ReplyDelete2. Esther enjoys the thrill of death. I feel Esther considers suicide for the very reason of it being out of the ordinary. It is an extreme way of showing how unique she is. Esther has already described different types of suicide such as electric chair and madly trying to open her window. She has this queer fascination of the idea but never speaks her mind on it except hint on the way it makes her feel. The key point for me was the moment she flew down the ski slope and though to herself how wonderful it was: "I felt my lungs inflate with the inrush of scenery--air, mountains, trees, people. I thought, 'This is what it is to be happy'" (97). She is happy here as she is flying towards her own doom. This one part of her life that she cannot control, has no hope of stopping she is happy and admits it. Maybe this is the point of Esther. She needs to lose a little control, perfection is not always necessary. Emotions such as love and happiness should have more freedom in Esther mind instead of oppression. I think that is the true reason Esther is considering suicide. She oppresses her own mind until there is no other option. Esther needs a little genuine hope in her life.
1. I imagine that Esther feels extremely guilty. For some it already feels pretty horrible to live a lie, but to be praised and celebrated for living a lie is even worse. I've definitely been in classes where I completely dreaded the thought of going to class just because I knew how trying and difficult the class is, and I knew I would do anything to get out of going. If I had to endure that while pretending to love it, I think I would be extremely stressed. I imagine that Esther is extremely tired from putting on this act.
ReplyDelete2. Esther has a pretty depressing life. It's weird to say that because she's clearly intelligent, has the ability to go far, is of the upper middle class, and gets great internship opportunities, but none of this is what she wants. Esther is constantly disappointed. She's disappointed by things that are supposed to excite her. She doesn't care to get married or just be a wife. Therefore, this world isn't enough for her. When she's with Buddy, even though he hardly added excitement to her life, she was let down that she wasn't his first, but at the same time extremely relieved that she wouldn't have to be. Esther doesn't really belong in this society.
1.
ReplyDeleteEsther is being applauded for what makes her the most miserable, awarded for her depressed state, and encouraged to continue along this path of misery and despair. How else could she feel but depressed? Esther is trapped in this world, driven into a path of misery by the expectations of those around her. By all means, she should be enjoying herself in New York. But this trip is simply yet another step to another step to another step to success, a small stone in the path to the goal that society has set for her; to become a successful, married woman. If I were she, and felt the absolute misery that we see her feeling, I would indeed feel trapped and disconnected from others who appear to be enjoying themselves in such an environment. Giving up would entail failing to meet the expectations set for her by those who surround her, making less than an A, being less than is expected. As she says, “It never occurred to me to say no.”
2
As I said above, Esther is being applauded for what makes her the most miserable, awarded for her depressed state in academics, awarded for her undying devotion to schoolwork, and encouraged to continue along this path of misery and despair. How else could she feel but depressed, to the point that she feels the need to commit suicide? She has worked her life in this fashion, slowly creating a social disconnect from those around her as her misery increases as she continues to submerge herself into what makes her the most depressed. We see her now at this point, where such separation and such misery have broken her down to the point of madness, as she is teetering so close at the precipice of self-destruction. She is trapped, and the only way out, that she can perceive, is death.
1. There are some classes that definitely scare me, and if I were to ever feel physically sick at a class and be applauded for my performance, the principal emotion I would feel would be dishonesty and cheating the teachers and the students in the class. Even though being repulsed by a class in the way that Esther is is hard for me to imagine, accepting praise for something you don't appreciate is just plain lying. Incidentally, I think this is one of Esther's deeper problems, something with her that just doesn't click. The fact that she can be made physically sick by learning, that she is repulsed by being made to find things out, is worrisome to me. Being scared by knowledge is not natural, to say the least. Still, being held up as an example due to superficial appearances would make me even sicker and more confused than I was before.
ReplyDelete2. I think that she just might consider it. She already feels the post-college world creeping in on her: "I felt dreadfully inadequate... The one thing I was good at was winning scholarships and prizes, and that era was coming to an end" (77). Esther clearly feels as though all of her supposed talents are not going to be any help in this new life she is supposed to be living in New York City, or perhaps in married life. However, from what she says in the reading, the latter option seems less and less likely. She has already insinuated several suicide-like things, such as her frequent thoughts on death which she cures by taking baths, and not being able to open the windows. As several of my classmates have already mentioned, there is a general feeling of Esther's reluctance to face, perhaps even fear of the world of Jay Cee. And yet she refuses to admit this to anyone. Take, for example, the section dealing with her interest in German: she tells everyone that she would like to be fluent in it, but in reality is scared to death of the language.
1. Well, for this question, just... god. While not having been in the same situation as Esther where she is taking college Physics, getting sick, and being held a model student, I can combine my experiences. I remember before I came to Paideia, the school I went to didn’t have a great music department for the band. I was the only person taking private lessons, and so, the teacher would always tell me to do things, but whenever people look at me collectively like that, I freeze up. I was like Esther in that I kind of felt sick and panicky. So, if I had to go through my AP classes feeling like that, I feel like it would be awful. Being scared of equations or the periodic table, and having to live with that through AP Chem, well, I’m already stressed out enough.
ReplyDelete2. I feel like Esther, like Amanda said, just feels disappointed by everything. She mentioned it herself when she woke up beside Constantin, she said that in the distance she sees some flawless guy only to be disappointed when she sees his flaws once she gets to know him. maybe she just feels like she doesn’t belong. I remember Buddy asked her if she would want to live in the country or city, and she said both. And she just doesn’t know what to do. Maybe it isn’t that she wants to die, but doesn’t particularly care either way.
1. Billions of people live everyday in positions they hate and wish they were out of, whether they’d rather be out writing poems or watching television as they work jobs in cubicles, sweatshops, and factories. Esther feels like it is necessary, just as these billions of people believe it is necessary, to continue what they hate and despise so that they may continue living. The expectation that Esther must get all A’s matches the expectation that a worker must support themselves and their families. The way that Esther is held up as a model student and praised by her professor makes her situation much more depressing though, as I imagine it would make me. It would feel like I was putting up a false front so that I may gain what I don’t really need. The guilt of lying, among other things, would make me feel terrible as a sat in that class everyday and the teacher smiled at me, thinking I was happy as can be, but the only thing I was happy about was not taking the class.
ReplyDelete2. Esther’s progress as a person is impeded by the notion that she must either be an outcast, independent woman or a house making wife. The fact that she can’t continue on her own path, but must have every aspect of her life predetermined by people like Buddy Willard and the author of “In the Defense of Chastity”, must drive her crazy. This coupled with her mental illness would likely drive anybody crazy.
I think it could be pretty awful. I don’t think I’ve ever felt sick like that about a class, but I have definitely worked on homework that I despise doing and if I had to work as hard s she does to get an A I don’t think I would do it. I don’t know why she bother to keep up this perfect girl appearance…I guess maybe it’s because she is lost and doesn’t know what she would do with herself if she didn’t do what was expected of her.
ReplyDeleteI think the idea of escaping a place is often promising to people; they think that it can change everything, even the meaning to life or ones purpose in it. I think that Esther is greatly disappointed by the fact that New York City is of absolutely no inspiration to her and has not helped her find her place or peace. She is constantly hiding behind a façade and it must be getting frustrating. Esther wants out. “They thought I was so brave, working the way I did just to hide a broken heart” (73). Esther remembers those days with Buddy and I think is simply puzzled, she doesn’t quite know why she plays this part either. The bath tub purifying her and her fury when she cannot open a window indicate that she needs to get out and rid herself of these things she doesn’t want in life (all her As?).
1) It would be absolutely terrible, yet it does not surprise me that Esther does it. Personally, I would not be able to live with myself. Esther does not know what she wants or who she is, so she sinks further and further and "shrinks" into a place where she questions her own existence. She thrives in the class that she detests because she is entertained by the pain that it brings her. She is so numb to her surroundings that pain makes her feel alive. She is almost tortured by this class, and yet loves the fact that she is suffering. Emotionally, Esther is incredibly unstable. She seems to be lost in a vast ocean of emotions, desperate for a savior but savoring the pain as she waits.
ReplyDelete2) I think Esther would view suicide as a logical resolution. She talks so much about her wish to cease to exist and instead become an object or thing that doesn't feel emotions. She is confused by herself and wants to embody a simple object. Esther views death as peaceful in that it lacks the exhaustion of the paranoia Esther faces in every day life. She takes pleasure in abandoning real life issues. She loves to hide behind the mask of someone who she is not. "They thought I was so brave, working the way I did just to hide a broken heart" (73). She finds it easy to take on these false ideals and characteristics.
System overload. This would wreak havoc to my entire being in a perturbing unsuspecting way. The actual event of her teacher singling her out as a model probably isn't that bad, but its the fact that the model student is someone who is scared and depressed that does the most damage to her psyche. Evidently, she's hostile towards physics in the same way a frightened animal would be when backed into a corner by a ruthless predator. Add on top of that, the teacher who is supposed to embody wiseness and knowledge, and who has the power to shape the future, who commends the hard work of a poor girl who shouldn't serve as a model for anyone with any hope of living a life without thinking that "the day [she] went to physics class it was death".
ReplyDeleteOne wrong move and I feel like Esther could go off the edge. She has so much going on underneath this perfect little shell, but its not some major traumatic event. Her life ain't perfect. Obviously. But its gotten to the point where her little problems or insecurities have festered and she doesn't know how to deal with real life. It seems like all she's ever been concerned with has been maintaining this super-pure-white-as-a-dove-good-girl image and getting the grades have been part of that. But she's gotten to a point where she has to make a big-girl decision using her own personal dreams and desires and she has no idea where they went. The pressure is building, and like a wild animal that had been cornered, Esther is gonna snap faster than a dry twig. There is going to be something that scares the life right out of her and makes her resort to suicide.
1. It does take a lot of time and deligence to get and A in a difficult class like Physics. Many times you have to stay up late and it cuts into your social life. For me, taking a class like Physics and hating every single minute of it would og me downa dn really effect the other aspects of my life. I don't know if teachers realize how much student's lives revolve around school, but it honestly has huge impact, whether a student cares about academics or not. Working that hard on a subject and having it be physically painful but doing WELL does make it a bit different for me. At least you get some feedback that all this work you're doing is paying off. I can definitely see Esther's point of view. She hates it. Why is she taking it? What is so important about getting an A in this class? Why is school important if she's going to get marriend anyway? She cannot answer these questions and that leaves her feeling useless with no direction and no purpose.
ReplyDelete2. I can see why Esther has the desire to hurl herself down that hill. It's a sense of freedom and openess that she can rarely ever experience. A very telling and deep view into Esther was on page 77 when she was with Constantine at the UN. "...I felt dreadfully inadequate. The trouble was, I had been inadequate all along, I simply hadn't thought about it. The only thing I was good at was winning scholarships and prizes, and that era was coming to an end...I felt like a racehorse without racetracks..." This moment perfectly caputres what Esther has been going through her entire life. As I said earlier in class, her entire life she's felt like she's had to proove herself that she is somebody because of her background, and even more so, she has to prove it to herself that she is worth something. At this point, she feels like if she disappeared, nothing would change. The would would keep spinning, no one would notice. So why not end her misery? Why feel this way when it can easily be fixed? The solution? Dying.
1. I took AP Biology last year, and I was a little scared. However, I loved the class, even though I was constantly stressed in that class. I couldn't imagine despising a class and feeling pain because of it. It sounds miserable. And I don't understand how she can still get an A in the class. I don't understand how you can hate and be hurt by something so much and still succeed. For me, I always do my best and succeed when I'm passionate about it. This really depicts Esther's emotions and state of mind if she is willing to harm herself just to get an A.
ReplyDelete2. Esther is in this huge world surrounded by all these people that she feels no connection to. She has this distance from everyone around. She's isolated, but she's also isolated within herself. She can find her emotions or what she wants. LIke in the Girl, Interrupted, Susanna says, "You hurt yourself in the outside to kill the thing on the inside". And Esther says at the end of chapter 7, "Then I thought, 'No, I broke it myself. I broke it on purpose to pay myself back for being such a heel'". Esther sees herself as a bad person. Maybe she hates herself and wants to end it. But Esther feels like a black hole in this world and wants to escape and get out. And she thinks the only way is suicide or death.
1. I agree with John that that sounds like an absolutely horrible situation to be in. I think that she feels trapped from on the expectations and pressures that she faces from her home and school. The fact that she is so revered at her school only would make it that much worse if she were to fail or quit at something. I think it shows that she is a truly great student though; even in the class that she hates so much it makes her ill she still puts in as much work as she needs to to get the A. It also must be especially difficult because it looks like she doesn't really feel any feelings of personal satisfaction or pride from all of her hard work.
ReplyDelete2. I think Ether's complete lack of real personal connections to other people plays a large part in her suicidal thoughts. This is a time where talking about depression and suicide were very taboo, even more so than they are today. She has nobody in the world that she can share her emotions with, or get advice from. I think the quote where she says she feels like "“like a racehorse in a world without racetracks" also shows an aspect of her inner turmoil. She knows that she has the ability to put in the work for whatever she wants to do in the world, but she has come to the realization that she has absolutely no idea what she wants. Personal relationships and good grades have proved unrewarding to her, so she hasn't really found anything in the world that she enjoys besides taking hot baths.
1) I definitely think it would be hard. I know that so many people, including myself, have had a lot of trouble just getting through an AP science course. The fact that she got all A's is extremely impressive. The amount of time she must have spent working on something that makes her so very sick along with the depression must have been a really big burden for her.
ReplyDelete2) I definitely see things that could push her over the edge but nothing in particular outside of her own mind that should push her so far. I feel that her inability to care for someone for an extended really keeps her from working out some of her troubles because she has no one that can help her. She has no one that can tell her that she needs to pick something, one of the figs, and go on with her life because her distance from everything would allow her to sit passively got her whole life while the figs "wrinkle and go black".
1. I think that would be absolutely awful. There is a certain joy that one gets out of being really good at something. However, when one doesn't actually enjoy doing it, and in fact dreads it, that happiness goes away. She can't really be proud of herself for doing well because she doesn't love it. And it makes everything ten times worse that her teacher praises her for being so good, when in reality the entire subject makes her depressed. Being congratulated for something that is slowly ruining you inside must be the most terrible feeling. And I'm sure it just left Esther even more confused about her place in the world.
ReplyDelete2. Esther has a social job, a VERY social job, yet is not social in any way. Being surrounded by people who are all enjoying their lives and jobs while you simply watch must be terrible. Esther seems to have no connection with other people. It's as if she is an alien, or simply someone who doesn't speak the same language as everyone around her. She's lonely in a sea of people. She's even lonely when she's with one person, which seems very odd to me. This was shown when she drove to the Adirondacks with Mrs. Willard. "First Mrs. Willard drove and then I drove...I don't know what we talked about...but as the countryside turned us a bleak shoulder..I grew gloomier and gloomier." I think the point is that Esther wants to escape from everyone and that being around other people and establishing connections with people makes her depressed.
1. Of course it would be awful. She's basically living her entire life as a lie, a fancy fascade to cover the underlying truth. She never does anything for her own personal pleasure, and she barely ever takes the time to do what she wants. She has found a way to succeed in the eyes of society, but in doing so she has basically forfeighted her ability to do what makes her happy.
ReplyDelete2. As we've said, Esther is somewhat obsessed with death. She is facinated, compelled, and even comforted by the thoughts of death. While her run down the ski slope did not fuly represent killing herself, it was very very similar. On some level, she was letting go, forgetting the world and casting aside her cares. Her run down the ski slope gave her the ability to be completely disconnected to the world. In some ways, I think that this is the same sensation that draws her towards death. She wants something to solve her problems, to alleviate the pain. I DONT THINK THAT SHE WANTED TO KILL HERSELF WHEN SHE WENT DOWN THE SLOPE. But she did want to let go and be free. Which she did. And in doing so broke her leg.
1. While I certainly see some validity in the statement that such an experience would be terrifying it honestly just doesn't seem that far off from what other students tend to experience on a regular basis. The aspect that distinguishes Esther's experience from that of other students is, of course, her depression. But I still don't view this situation as terrifying. I would describe it as sad, stressful, and deserving of sympathy, but then again many students fall into situations that could be described the same way. I suppose one way to express my opinion would be to say that I fully admit that I am being harsh and somewhat un-sympathetic towards Esther's situation, but I do so only because I understand exactly where she is coming from. In my opinion Esther was certainly capable of pushing through her mental troubles and choosing a path for herself. The aspect of her life that has been described as terrifying just doesn't strike me as anything to be surprised by and it could be that I am simply callous in that regard as a result of my Paideia experience.
ReplyDelete2. I think that Esther would consider suicide simply to escape. It's not that Esther wants to cause herself physical harm or make a statement by killing herself, but as a result of the fact that she has not been happy or felt inspired by anything for her entire life. On page 75 she claims, "I was only purely happy until I was nine-years old." Not only is this an extraordinarily sad statement on it's own, it tells us exactly what is motivating her morbid thoughts. Anyone who can not enjoy life is going to start looking anywhere they can for an escape. For many people that very escape becomes the act of ending their own life, I suppose it might be referred to as the 'ultimate escape' as it could potentially put an end to their perpetual unhappiness. I don't think Esther needs any more reason than this to consider these actions.
1. I think taking a class that made you like you were physically in pain would b terrifying. I truly do not know if I could continue taking that class. To even thinking about it makes me a little freaked out. I do not know if I could deal with that. To take a class that stressed me out so badly that I was physically in pain would not only make me thing that I needed to drop the class but that there was also something wrong. It scares me to think that a class would cause me to panic so much. I love school, i think that is adds a lot to my life, but to be so scared of going to a class because I am afraid of not getting an A, or something else, would take a lot away from my life.
ReplyDelete2. I agree with andrew I think she would commit suicide merely to escape. Like she could not stand being kept in this little life, unable to expand, I also think that she is truly unhappy, and I do not know why, but I do think that she is having trouble putting on this face smile everyday, and not knowing what she is doing with her life. I think that both the fact that she wants to escape and that she is useless and unhappy adds to her desire to killer herself. I also think that andrews quote works, "I was only purely happy until I was nine-years old." This explains her disappointment in her life, so I am no surprised by the fact that she contemplates suicide.
1)I think being in a class that I hated and expected to do well would be terrible honestly. I can only imagine the large amount of pressure it must feel like. I would feel exhausted but I’m hoping at some point I’d be proud of myself. I’m sure that I could be as long as I saw the A’s coming in. There would be a big difference in my reaction if I was working and pretending that hard to not get a high grade. But I could also see myself growing bitter towards the subject and everything that has to do with it. There might be some resentment or anger even and especially for pretending to love it and enjoy it. I would never pretend to enjoy it though.
ReplyDelete2) I Esther would consider suicide because she can’t it in her to genuinely enjoy life. No matter how hard she works to get past a certain task, her reward will always be to have more work. Literally all she gets as compensation is the recognition of being able to do more or harder work. She’s not close to anyone really so she doesn’t have a stable and deep relationship with someone rooting her down anywhere. She doesn’t want to get married nor have kids. Although she has plans for the future, she just feels incapable of really enjoying anything or than death. “In spite of the Girl Scouts and the piano lessons and the water-color lessons and the dancing lessons and the sailing camp, all of which my mother scrimped to give me, and college, with crewing in the mist before breakfast and the blackbottom pies and the little new firecrackers or ideas going off every day––I had never been really happy again.”(75) Unfortunately, she’s been given everything and she doesn’t feel much of a challenge at anything and the one thing she does feel challenged by, sickens her physically. She is lost and feels like she doesn’t belong anywhere.