Charley: He won't starve. None of them starve. Forget about him.
Willy: Then what have I got to remember? (45-46)
Why is Willy so fixated on Biff's success or failure? The quote above answers the question pretty well. And how terrifying is Willy's descent into madness or senility, into what Linda simply says is something "terrible" (56)? The post title addresses that succinctly as well. Look below at the clip from the film version of the 1984 Broadway revival starring Dustin Hoffman, Kate Reid as Linda, John Malkovich as Biff, Stephen Lang as Happy, and Charles Durning as Charley. It captures powerfully the way the past overcomes Willy's present.
Two questions for you all tonight.
1. Your reaction to the clip above? Does it fit what you've been seeing in your mind as you've been reading the play? Does it make clearer what we've been talking about in class? What do you think of Dustin Hoffman as Willy? Of course, in the play, Willy says, "'I'm fat. I'm very—foolish to look at" (37), but that's because the actor originally cast as Willy, Lee J.Cobb, was a big man. Miller originally had a small man in mind. (Notice too how Linda is as big, if not bigger, than Willy: in the original production, she was a tiny woman compared to Willy)
2. The reading ends with Linda's passionate defense of and argument for Willy. It's a powerful plea for this man who Linda acknowledges isn't "great." Please look at 55 to 57, starting with "Biff, dear, if you don't have any feeling for him, then you can't have any feeling for me" and ending with her characterizing Happy as a "philandering bum." Do you agree with Linda's argument for Willy here? All of it? Parts of it? Are we supposed to accept everything she says as the gospel truth? What does she say that particularly jumps out at you, and why? Go ahead and quote what she says to answer that last question.
Have a good night and we'll see you tomorrow.
1. I really liked this clip. I think it was a good depiction of the scene. I think this clip really shows how "tired" Willy is especailly when Willy is playing card with Charley and he starts to think about Ben. It really shows how much Willy is breaking down and falling apart. He is emotionally tired. He is tired of his life and failing himself and his sons. I like Dustin Hoffman as Willy. He looks like a small average business man. He looks wimpy compared to Ben. I also like the scene with Ben. I think it really shows kind of how Willy admires Ben and wishes he was Ben. Willy also looks really desperate when he's asking Ben not to leave and asking him how he should teach his son. Willy is desperate to not be a failure even though he has already failed.
ReplyDelete2. I think Linda is a very strong woman. She knows her husband is falling apart, but yet she still stands up for him. Linda says to Biff, "He's your father and you pay him that respect". I agree with Linda. Even though Willy is starting to go a little insane, Biff and Happy should still respect their father. By disrespecting their father, they are disrespecting their mother. Linda says, "Willy Loman never made a lot of money.... But he's still a human being...." I mostly agree with Linda. I think she does see the flaws in Willy, and she know Willy has made mistakes, but she also sees that "the man is exhausted".
1 For me, seeing this clip was really helpful in understanding the dynamics in the scene when Willy and Charley are playing cards and suddenly Willy starts talking to Ben. It was a tad confusing reading that scene, as lines of dialogue from three characters, one who was not actually there, were being spit out and two conversations were going on at once. Also, it helped to see the quickness of how that conversation goes and how crazy it really makes Willy look. I am a fan of Dustin Hoffman’s Willy. I think Dustin Hoffman’s smallness works and adds to Willy’s desperation to be masculine, and it contributes to the way he wants his children to be alpha males because he is so not an intimidating figure due to his tiny demeanor.
ReplyDelete2. I agree mostly with Linda’s argument. She says “a terrible thing has happened... he’s not to be allowed to fall into his grave like an gold dog,” (56). Willy had a difficult upbringing, and he is currently going through a lot: he’s a failure at work, he’s having difficulties in his relationships with his son, and he has some definite psychological issues. But despite all that, he’s still living his life the best he can. He’s still trying. He has every reason to give up, but he does not give up. As Linda says, “attention must be paid” (56) Willy is definitely not a perfect husband or father or person, but I think he deserves to get credit for continuing on his struggle-filled life when he could easily give up and end it.
1. The clip fits most of what I pictured this scene to look like. However in my mind I pictured their house much smaller, probably since I picture it as a play and not a movie. I think this scene captures the confusion of Willy's breakdown perfectly. Biff, Linda, and happy are all confused as to what's happening with their husband and father and I think this scene does an excellent job at confusing the viewer. I like Dustin Hoffman as Willy even though I pictured him older and crankier looking. I really enjoyed the parts with Ben because it really exaggerated Willy's eagerness to live up to his brother. Ben is a success and is telling Willy how to be one too, but he simply can't/couldn't live up to. Willy tried so hard to raise his sons with Ben's philosophy and luck, but it just didn't transfer. They are living like their father instead of their uncle and this is disappointing to Willy.
ReplyDelete2. Linda is Willy's only advocate now. He can't focus and see what's happening to him and his sons have no sympathy. I feel bad for Linda because she's left to keep everything together. I don't think we should accept what Linda says as the gospel truth, but I do think it's important to pay attention to her. This is her sweetheart that she's just watching fall apart and she has no clue what to do. I still think we are well within our right to say that he's a failure, but I also think there is value to her defense. As Biff and Happy say that Willy's bosses are "bastards," she responds with, "Are they any worse than his sons?" I love that she tells that how horribly they are treating their father. She calls them on their bullshit. They act like they care, but in reality they have no sympathy for their father, which is why Linda is left to be the strength of the family.
1. The clip is pretty different from what I had envisioned in my mind. I think my vision of the play and what the characters look like and what their house looks like and everything corresponds the most to the Brian Dennehy version. I just imagined Willy a much fuller and gruffer character and someone much larger as opposed to Dustin Hoffman who just seems a little too small and frail to carry the role of Willy Loman. I also liked the woman who plays Linda in the Brian Dennehy version more because I think you can see the wear and tear on her more than the Linda in the Dustin Hoffman version. And with their house and everything I think that the Dustin Hoffman version was a little too ‘luxurious’ for the Loman family. I think that seeing this scene get acted out did make the reading clearer though because when I was reading it I found it hard to go back and forth between who was talking and who was present and who was being addressed and what Willy was doing. Seeing Dustin Hoffman go back and forth between everyone made it much clearer and easier to follow but it still kept it chaotic enough to mirror the chaos written in the book.
ReplyDelete2. I think Linda finally steps out of her role of being a typical housewife in this moment. She finally sheds that armor and shows her kids that she’s starting to crack under all of the pressure and she’s hanging on a thread trying to keep her family together and sane. I think in a way it also mirrors what Biff was saying on page 22 about having to work all year long just to have that 2 week break and then go back and do it all over again. I think it mirrors it because Willy works incredibly hard a job that drains him and a job that he isn’t very good at just so he can keep food on the table and help his sons and keep his home but even that isn’t always enough. I think she really is being honest here and we see that she sees right through Willy’s lies about work going great and she knows exactly what’s going on. She sees he is suffering and drowning especially when she says, “But he’s a human being, and a terrible thing is happening to him. So attention must be paid. He’s not to be allowed to fall into his grave like an old dog. Attention, attention must be finally paid to such a person” (56). She realizes that while he may not be “great” he tries and he puts an effort in and that kind of work shouldn’t be going by unnoticed. He should still have some respect and he should have people still supporting him regardless of his success. His family shouldn’t be going around behind his back thinking he’s a failure because how is he supposed to become anything without his own family believing in him?
I actually really enjoyed the clip above. When I read this scene in the book, I didn't pick up on the aura of casualness that this clip suggests the play has. The conversation is more laid back, more so than I thought when reading it. Some of the play is simply talking, where I have been reading it as every sentence has huge significant meaning. For example, when Willy is playing cards in the kitchen with Charlie, I read it as they were seriously fighting with one another, or being hostile. But in the scene above, it shows the dialogue between the two while playing cards more as a kind of banter that men will have with each other, more as a way of presenting themselves to the other man than the two actually fighting. And then with the second part of the clip, I love the way it switches back and forth between the actual scene and his hallucination. That is exactly how I read the scene, and to me that seems like the most effective way of showing the contrast between reality and what is actually going through Willy's head. I love Dustin Hoffman as Willy. Just from watching this scene I think he plays the part perfectly. He looks and acts like a worn out, middle-aged man who gives off the feeling that he's irritated and tired, but he does not give off the feeling that he has completely given up yet. I think he plays the part perfectly because he makes the character of Willy Loman more relatable than the play script that we are reading does. The character that Dustin Hoffman plays does not seem to be as dramatic and hopeless as the character in the playwrite, making him more relatable to people that we may know now or even to our parents.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with Linda's argument. Linda is Willy's wife, and may know Willy better than he himself does. She sees that all of his life, he has been trying, and that he has been working too hard with too little reward. She sees this as an excuse for his craziness, and blames her sons for waisting all of the time and effort that Willy put into the two of them to be successful. Linda is valid in saying this because what she says is simply fact, even if she is a bit biased because he is her husband. Yes, her sons have been a disappointment, and yes Willy has been working himself crazy all of his life and it is not paying off. What makes what she says so significant though is the fact that she is the first person to address these facts head on and make sure they are known. I'm not sure if we are supposed to accept everything Linda says as the gospel truth, but the general idea of her argument is truthful enough for me. It is hard to dispute anything that is backed up so sufficiently, and her opinion is that Willy needs to be watched over and cared for because he is going through a hard time. I see nothing wrong with what she says there, because in general that is what human beings should do for each other. Put aside all family matters and disputes, it's the way human beings should treat each other amidst this world so engulfed in success and money. What Linda says that jumps out at me is, "Why shouldn't he talk to himself, why?" because it really shows the sympathy that Linda feels for her husband. Like I said, she has been around and she knows him, she knows what he's been through. Willy's sons have not been around, and when they have been around as kids, they have been oblivious to his troubles.
I agree with you on the clarity that the clip brought to the dialogue in the scene, you phrased that really well.
Delete1. This clip really does focus in on a very peculiar scene, and I think it does it well. But this scene is both enthralling and very sad to me. Dustin Hoffman plays his role well, the way he flits about the stage, eager to show off his sons to his older brother, but searching for reassurance because even deep down he knows that they are not going to live up to his expectations. Its also sad to see that Willy looks up to a man who cheats, when he pushes Biff down with his umbrella, and surprises the entire family especially Linda. I also think Hoffman dies an incredible job with the chronic sadness in the back of Willy's throat, always peeking out in anything he says or does. Although I really enjoyed the clip, it is a sad scene to watch and it is already apparent that Willy feels like a failure to his kids and to himself.
ReplyDelete2.Linda is breaking that barrier that has been set up by social stereotypes in this scene, as she passionately defends her deteriorating husband, and stands up against her sons rather than nag quietly in the background. I really gained respect for Linda in this scene, but part of me wonders whether all that she is saying is true. She obviously defends Willy, that much is certain, and I would say she loves him as well. But some parts of the story seem to be second hand information. She tells Biff that "He works for a company thirty-six years this March, opens up unheard-of territories to their trademark, and now in his old age they take his salary away" (56). This could be false. Willy could merely have lost his charisma and his appeal. It is unknown to the reader, but it seems to me that she may defend him so fully that she has created and illusion for herself to explain why this "great" man has fallen so far from greatness. I agree that Willy Loman deserves sympathy, but only for certain things. He never made enough money, and now he still has to work even though he is "tired to the death". But the way he raises his children, and lies to himself about how it was the right thing to do, is awful.
ReplyDelete1. This clip is a little bit like what I’ve been picturing in my mind, except this is Dustin Hoffman in the clip, and when it comes to imagining a man who isn’t aging well nor doing well in his last couple days of life, I do not imagine Dustin Hoffman. I think that Dustin Hoffman does a good job playing out the character of Willy, but it is still very difficult for me to get past the fact that it’s Dustin Hoffman, who is as far from failure as I can imagine, so I can’t really get my head wrapped around him as Willy Loman. I also really agree with Tanja about the actual size of Dustin Hoffman compared to the size of Brian Dennehy, who I preferred as Willy over Dustin Hoffman, because to me, Dennehy just seemed realistically more like Willy than Hoffman. However, this does clear up this scene in particular for me because I was very confused as to what was actually going on in this scene while I was reading it, but this helped me a little bit more as I read along while I was watching it.
2. To me, it was really nice to see Linda out of her role as the quiet, worried, yet seemingly content housewife. I think that she did really need to explode at her sons like she did, because otherwise, they wouldn’t understand what she and Willy go through everyday and how much Willy’s lack of success takes a toll on them. I don’t agree wholeheartedly with everything or most of what she says, but I think she makes a great point that all his sons have done since they’ve returned is bitch and moan about their life and somewhat just look at their father, the man who worked his ass off for them, with contempt and scorn. They really don’t seem grateful for the fact that he has become unsuccessful, trying to make them successful and they just don’t get it. Willy has every right to be disappointed in his children, not because they haven’t succeeded, just like he hasn’t, but because they aren’t grateful and haven’t even acknowledged what he does and what he has done to help them get out of their small-town nothing rut. What stands out to me is when Linda says: “And you tell me he has no character? The man who never worked a day but for your benefit? When does he get the medal for that? Is this his reward- to turn around at the age of sixty-three and find his sons, who he loved better than his life, one a philandering bum…” (57). His sons flew the nest so early and quickly without a care that they didn’t realize why their dad has become so “crazy” and why their vision of their Superman had collapsed. They thought it was his failure when it was really the fact that they just reached his level and they really can’t excel any further than Willy can.
1. I am so glad you showed us this clip. I found this scene quite confusing when I read it because of the dialogue between Charlie and Willy with Ben in the background. This clip really cleared things up! I thought it worked out surprisingly well to have Willy be so short. This worked out especially well when Ben, the rich and perfect brother just towers over Willy. This is entire scene really helps me sympathize with Willy. I'm not totally sure if I see him as a failure anymore when he is so obviously trying to get by and provide for his family. To me, a failure is someone who isn't trying. Hoffman does a great job of playing Willy because he is fantastic at showing how Willy doesn't even realize how crazy he is.
ReplyDelete2. I most definitely agree with Linda. She is the only one who truly realizes how hurt Willy is and actually tries to help him, unlike Happy and Biff who take on the character of Nick from GG, who just sits by and doesn't help. Linda has also been used to being the only one who is truly trying to help him, so it makes perfect sense that she would lash out at her children, who sit idly by. This scene truly gets me when Linda says "He's the dearest man in the world to me, and I won't have anyone making him feel unwanted and low and blue...Either he's your father or else your not to come here." Linda really understands that part of the reason Willy is going so crazy is because of his children. He has put all of his life and energy into making sure his children (Biff) succeed and it is driving him crazy to see them fail as he has. Linda is doing the right thing by telling Biff and Happy to either leave or support their father as she is.
1. I think that overall the clip was very good. I really like the way they capture Willy very well in his scene with Charley. I think that they did a very well job capturing Willy's anxiety and insecurity. I was also pleased with the scene with Ben. I think it was very clever the way in which they put Ben on the background and how Willy never looked at him directly until Charley left. The only thing that really bother me was the actor that played both Charley and Willy. In my opinion the actors were mix, meaning that the actor that portrait Willy should have portrait Charley and vice-versa. However, I think that Willy was well played regardless of how he looked. I think that Biff was very goofy looking and he seem more like happy.
ReplyDelete2. I was really impressed by Linda's attitude here. She came out as the strong women I did not suspect she was. It was very interesting to see how she was very firm about what she said and that she is not as naive as I thought at beginning. I understand that she would protect Willy for it seems obvious that she loves him but some of her arguments are questionable. I feel like she is trying too hard to make her husband look good. I agree with her that "He's not the the finest character that ever lived" (56), but it is really hard to understand what is good about Willy. I also agree with her that he is a human being and all but aren't we all human? I can't take everything she says a truth because, like I said before, she is trying to make Willy look better but at the same time she points out too many flaws. In my opinion, Willy is a failure but Linda does not want to admit that he is the cause of his failure and not other around him. She is a strong woman that would fight for her husband but is blind to the truth.
Interesting, Aldo. Is Linda overstating her argument? Should we consider Willy's many flaws? Do we forget his infidelity 16 years before? His role in both Biff and Happy's confusion? Or in the context of Linda's plea for Willy's innate humanity, does any of this matter?
Delete1) I really liked the clip, although it downplayed some of the erosion of Willy’s mind, to me. I really like how Ben was portrayed, but I imagined Willy as a rough, disheveled character. In my mind, Willy’s heaviness is important to his character, but I see the symbolism in making him a small, weak man. Willy’s desperation is portrayed perfectly, and as soon as Ben shows up, we are exposed to his weakness. Just like you said, John, Linda is shown just as big as Willy, hinting at who the real leader is in the family. Like Jenny, I was confused by this scene when I first read it and this clip clarified a lot of the confusing bits of the reading. All around I thought this interpretation was spot-on.
ReplyDelete2) This scene changed my opinion of Linda completely. Before this scene, we see Linda as a character in denial, working hard for her husband and not for herself. I thought she was ignorant to what Willy is going through when really she is more aware than any other character. This reading showed Linda’s strength. “…you tell me he has no character? The man who never worked a day but for your benefit?” (57). She loves her husband through sickness and health and is calling out her two sons for being so ungrateful and unloyal. She is no longer the wife who stands in Willy’s shadow, she has taken the family by storm and is firmly holding it together.
1. I liked Dustin Hoffman, a smaller man, as Willy. It makes sense to me for Willy to be big or small, but I think Hoffman made it work really well. I especially liked the difference between Willy and Ben in size, so that Willy is physically looking up to Ben. It narrows in on the fact the Willy isn't masculine. I like the clip; I think it's great acting. I agree with what some others said, that the house seems to big. But other than that I thought it made sense, and it definitely made the scene easier to understand.
ReplyDelete2. I respect Linda for standing up for her husband when no one else will. There is no doubt that Willy is determined and that he is trying his best, and she is right: he deserves respect for that. But I think Linda holds onto Willy too much. Biff says that Willy didn't respect Linda: "Stop making excuses for him! He always, always wiped the floor with you. Never had an ounce of respect for you". I have to think that maybe he is telling the truth here. I think Linda puts Willy above everyone else: "He's not to be allowed to fall into his grave like an old dog". In this time when Willy is falling apart, nothing else really matters to Linda.
To clarify the end of 2: I don't think Willy deserves this from Linda. From what we have seen so far, he doesn't give her half true admiration she gives him.
Delete1. While I was reading, the old fashioned language made it seem sort of unnatural. It really helps to watch it being played out. I think they did a really good job, especially Dustin Hoffman. They made it seem more realistic than I could imagine just from the dialogue. It also cleared up exactly what was going on. During the reading it was hard to understand what was actually happening and what was going on in Willy’s head. I also finally understood what happened at the end when Ben pushes Biff down and tells him not to fight fair with a stranger. I think Hoffman does a really good job of displaying the sort of craze that Willy is slipping into. He plays delusional really well while still keeping up Willy’s peppy and somewhat pathetic idealism and optimism. It would be helpful to watch more of this version to get a better understanding and feel for the rest of the book.
ReplyDelete2. I do agree with what Linda says about Willy. She doesn’t seem to have any illusions about what’s really happening. She’s the stay at home wife of the working man, but she seems to have had a better grasp on the state of all things for a while now. She admits that he has faults. “I don’t say he’s a great man… His name was never in the paper. He’s not the finest character that ever lived. But he’s a human being, and a terrible thing is happening to him. So attention must be paid”(56). Willy might not be the greatest of guys, but he is no way a bad guy. He’s worked incredibly hard, and while he’s made many mistakes, he’s only ever done things in the interest of his family. No matter how he may act now, it’s clear that he cares about them. Biff is quick to write him off as a crazy old bastard because of all of the pressure he’s gotten from him, but Willy only ever wanted what was best for Biff. Now, after an entire life of selfless work (what Biff calls suffering), Willy is watching his entire life and all of his dreams crumble before his eyes. How is he supposed to act? How can you be even remotely annoyed with a man who has repeatedly tried to commit suicide?
1.
ReplyDeleteThe video differed from my original reading in the intensity of Willy’s confused conversations. I felt that it depicted the reality of Willy’s illness quite well; he becomes completely confused, and to become lost within your own mind is a frightening thought indeed. I feel that Dustin Hoffman as Willy is quite apt. Hoffman’s acting and diminutive stature produces the image of a man who does not make an impression, is not a commanding presence, and who always looks up to his older brother, Ben: this is not a successful man.
2.
I found Linda’s speech as her last ditch effort to stand beside her husband, to reason his fall into senility, asking, “Why shouldn’t he talk to himself?”. She gives us a picture of a man left behind in a world moving on, his old business contacts gone, and the company he works for sidelining him. But is this truly what has occurred? If his previous contacts have passed away, should he not have the skill to find new ones? Did these previous contacts like him as she claimed they did, or simply take pity on him? Did the company drop Willy for no reason, or because he simply wasn’t selling as much as he previously had?
1. The first thing I noticed about the clip above was how much bigger everybody was compared to Dustin Hoffman. He really is a shrimp; Charley is a big man, his sons are much taller than he is, and Ben in the clip looks exactly like what I pictured Tom to be (as was mentioned in class) while we read The Great Gatsby: tall (cruel body) with an expensive white suit and a pompous aura about him. In the play, Willy is also a smaller man mentally, constantly berating Charley and Bernard for no particular reason, while Charley (the bigger man) just shakes it off and offers Willy a job. Willy even sucks up to his brother just because Ben has a ton of money, and while he might not be directly trying to get some of that money, Willy still wants his sons to follow in their uncle’s big footsteps, rather than his own small ones. I think that Dustin Hoffman was a great choice for the play. He is a good actor, a small man, and gives the impression (to me, at least) of an aging failure of a man.
ReplyDelete2. I agree with Linda’s argument. Up to this point in the play, she could have been described as submissive, but her dialogue in these pages gives us the reason for her actions. She sees who Willy is, not what he is trying to be, and she knows that he is a good man. He is not a “great man”, a famous man, or a good man, but he is a “human being” nonetheless. He has sacrificed his life for his sons, and in his old age they have abandoned him just as the company has. He loved his sons “better than his life”, and they gave up on him. Willy may be considered a failure, but the things and the people around him have given up on him without a word of protest, dooming him to fail no matter what. Only Linda has not given up on him, and she does speak the gospel about Willy. Willy is nothing more than an old man, neglected and forgotten by everything that he loved in the world. (I don’t think that he loves Linda though; he cheated on her! It’s ironic that he doesn't love the last thing that believes (loves) in him.
1. The video was different from my view of the play as I was a reading it. The video seemed a lot more... intense and animated. When I pictured the play in my head as I was reading it, I pictured Charley and Willy as being more calm in their talk. That is not to say that Willy did not raise his voice when agitated, and Charley did not show confusion when Willy was “talking” to Ben, but the video seemed a lot louder and intense, as “Hi” said.
ReplyDelete2. I agree somewhat with Linda in that Willy is old, not getting much business, and could possibly be treated badly by his company because of his old age. But, she is so on the defensive for him, her love, and parts of what she says doesn’t match up. For example, she says that he used to have really loyal customers, “old friends” that “always found some order to hand him in a pinch”, but we as readers have already seen that he was always having trouble with customers. I feel like we have to take her words with a grain of salt and look at them along with what we already know. I don’t think her words are “the gospel truth”, but I do feel like there is some truth in her words.
1. I thought the clip illustrated these pages very well. The house and the small backyard seemed to fit right into my view of this struggling family. The nature of the neighborhood with the construction and people living packed in so close to each other: “You sneeze in here, and in my house hats blow off” (42) gives the impression of a lower status area. Dustin Hoffman was very good as Willy giving off the dazed and confused sense that goes with the character. I also enjoyed the size of Dustin Hoffman as Willy. I never saw Willy as fat but instead as a small man that is easily pushed over by the better salesmen. Willy is a sad character that is losing the ability to see the difference between the past and reality. Willy wants to return to the glory days of the past so he does not have to live his failure of a life anymore.
ReplyDelete2. I think Linda makes a good argument and speaks from the heart here showing her strong feelings towards Willy. I agree with most all of it but I would want her to be clearer in how hard Willy works at his job. This is crucial because Willy is not at all lazy: “He’s not the finest character that ever lived. But he’s a human being, and a terrible thing is happening to him” (56). This is true losing his mind is terrible but to me a stronger argument would have been that he isn’t the best there ever was but he has always tried.
1.As some have said before me, the scene above managed to really clear up the time shit during this reading. I was mildly (really really) confused during Willy's transition from present to past. Dustin Hoffman did a remarkable job fitting himself into the role of Willy. He pulls off an appearance that essentially embodies every trait I could imagine Willy exhibiting. All in all the clip did a pretty good job of portraying my image of the scenarios in the reading, although I'm still struggling with the age of the two "boys," simply because they're still living at home. While Hoffman doesn't give the physical presence that i imagine coming from Willy, he manages to show the majority of the key characteristics that I associate with Willy.
ReplyDelete2. Honestly, it seems to me she is defending Willy beyond the call of duty. Willy is rarely a good father, or even a good husband. While her love of Willy is something no one can deny or blame her for, her violent defense of her husband to her two children, who clearly care about her, if not about Willy, is mildly ridiculous. Her main supportable point is brought up when she says, "Then make Charleey your father Biff." She has every reason to point out that Willy is their father, and there's nothing to be done about it, but in the end she is still being overly defensive of her husband. As we have mentioned in class she is holding Willy away from the truth. And the truth, at this point, is that he is losing his mind.
The clip does help visualize the scene and helps sort out reality vs. the visions Willy has. Like Jenny I am a fan of Dustin Hoffman’s Willy. The fact that he is smaller than everyone else in the clip, especially Ben, really stresses that Willy is struggling to keep up in this society of “big players.” I also liked the visual of Willy chasing after and clinging to Ben, as if keeping Ben would ensure money and success.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Linda’s argument and find it quite touching. “He [goes] to Charley and [borrows] fifty dollars a week and [pretends] to me that it’s his pay” (57). This really stood out to me, because this is when the reader first realizes that Linda is completely aware of the situation and the financial mess they are in, but no matter what, she always supports Willy. She loves Willy so much that even when he comes home and lowers the amount he earned every time Linda asks about it, she maintains a positive attitude towards him and is always encouraging. Linda knows the reality of things, how Biff and Happy feel. She might not understand complexity of the relationship Biff and Willy have, but as the mother and wife she understands the disappointments because of shortcomings on both their parts.
1. It took me a bit to acclimatize to this portrayal of Willy. I had created an image of a lethargic, large old man in my mind and Dustin Hoffman is definitely none of the above. As the scene progressed and I saw Willy deteriorate into the shambles that are his memories, I realized how much I agree with this portrayal. The staging of both the house, Ben's appearance and the backyard really resonated with the play. Willy came across as more unlikeable than I got the sense of from the play. I think seeing it is helping me see the point others have made that maybe he is, in fact, a failure.
ReplyDelete2. I think her testament should be accepted, yet at the same time taken with a grain of salt. While her passion and love is evident, there is also a touch of her making excuses for him. I loved when she says "A small man can be just as exhausted as a great man". She realizes Willy is a failure. When she acknowledges that he is not a great man she says he isn't because he never had and money or notoriety. I think that she excuses him for all of his failures in the past because of something that is happening to him in the present. I agree with her idea of being kind to him, protecting him and sticking with him through this tough time. However I also see that she is being naive and is excusing him for more than he maybe deserves.
I had definitely imagined Willy as a large man, possibly radiating a kind of failure to keep up fitness rather than heath. Although I was not disappointed with Willy as a frail small man. I think it works well to show how depleted he is of energy, and how really he's running on reserves and no longer has any substance or hope to hold on to. The clip definitely clarifies the situation and the characters and it agrees with the impression I had previous to watching it. It helps having an image to go along with the dialog, especially as it was written to be seen and not necessarily read. I managed to get a lot more meaning from the visual aspect by seeing the boys as boys and Linda as she was before. What really stood out was how desperate and pathetic and lost Willy seemed.
ReplyDeleteLinda has been this minor almost background character but this scene shone a new light on her role. She is not oblivious to her husbands deterioration, she simply doesn't allow him to see it, as he does for her. All Linda does is support Willy, because that is all she is able to do. It may be a commentary on society at the time, but Linda is not capable of getting a job to provide for the family, she is only able to do what's best for her family in her domain, the household. She is the one that has been there alongside Willy, and she knows best what is happening but it seems like she is only making excuses. "A small man can be just as exhausted as a great man", she just doesn't want to let go of the notion that all men are equal, she can't imagine Willy being less of a man than someone with more success.
1. I really liked the clip. I thought that Dustin Hoffman portrays Willy very well. I did not picture Willy looking like Hoffman, but it worked well anyways. He plays Willy's desperation, craziness, and sadness very well. You can see the desperation in his face when Ben starts to leave. Willy's character is lost from the earliest we see into his past. He looks for a sign through Ben to see if he is raising his children right. Ben is his role model and this does not end up working out in the end. Hoffman plays the role of Willy exceptionally. There are definitely a few things that I saw differently when I was reading the play in my head, but I wouldn't expect every detail I saw in my head to appear on the screen. Through this clip I can really see all the things we have been talking about in class. Hap tells Willy that he is losing weight so casually that it seems like an every day occurrence. Ben is also portrayed very well in this clip. The fight between Biff and Ben was very powerful. Over all I thought that it was a good representation of the lay.
ReplyDelete2. I agree with a lot of Linda's argument. Willy is going through hard times and he is having trouble dealing with it. All of Willy's life has been hard times. All that he thought he was working for is gone. LInda blames everyone in the family but herself and Willy. She wants to separate herself from her husband's craziness and calls it exhaustion: "No, a lot of people think he's lost his-balance. But you don't have to be very smart to know what his trouble is. The man is exhausted." Exhaustion and old age are a part of Willy's problem, but there is something more. Willy's life has gone to pieces before his eyes. Biff's future is crumbling, so Willy starts to understand that he had it wrong. Willy can't even be a successful parent. All of his depression coupled with his growing age and exhaustion create the formula for his insanity. Willy's life fell apart a long time ago and know Biff's life is starting to fall apart to. Now Willy to is too tired to pick up the pieces. Linda loves Willy and will not admit that something is really wrong. She knows that something is wrong, but she does not want to break the illusion of her perfect family. She wants to shove the blame off on Biff and Happy. She comes up with every excuse instead f facing reality.
I enjoyed seeing The adaptation of the play. As with any other play, it really helps to see it acted out, indeed, this was the intended medium of conveyance. Dustin Hoffman and the actor who plays Ben contrast physically with each other quite nicely. Hoffman almost seems like he can't reach the height or size that Ben's aspirations have taken him to, Willy has bigger shoes to fill from a brother he barely knows.
ReplyDeleteThe tendency to agree with Linda, I feel, comes from feeling sympathetic towards Willy, and in some ways I think this is justified. Willy certainly hasn't been dealt the best life or perfect children, and this is reflected in his personality. He's human, not perfect. However, as we've also seem, Willy can be somewhat of an ass at times, especially to people like Charley; this is brought out well in the clip. He isn't that nice to Bernard, either. But Linda insists that he is "the dearest man in the world to me," and that Charley would not make a better father, which is an unrealistic option anyway. I agree with Linda. Willy may have some character issues, but these are exacerbated by the fact that he can't seem to catch a break.
1. I enjoyed this clip also. Even so, Willy was dipicted as a lot more spastic then I had imagined. I pictured him slow and lumbering, not flitty. But I think this interpretation works also. I also thought that Ben seemed nicer in the clip than he is in the book. We still get the same feel for the character overall, but it really helped to see everything played out. I think I tend to read things too harshly because the lines don't flow and really make sense in my head. I found myself pitying the people who had to put up with Willy. He is a very insecure man, constantly looking for reassurance from everyone. So much so, he's stumbling back and forth to different characters, different times, differnt moments of his life, trying to find the confidence and pride he never had.
ReplyDelete2. I think that Linda does a good job painting the thankless life of Willy Loman. In this she, she shows that she isn't bling-- she knows he's been borrowing from Charley. The main thing that makes me cring about her speech, is the fact that she holds him so high, even though he cuts her down everyday. We witness throughout the play that Willy sits on Linda. He refuses to listen to anything she has to say, and the fact that she still worships him on hand and foot is a bit disturbing. Yes, I can see how she can been seen as the voice of truth and reason in the play, but it's hard to trust what she's saying when she has no respect for herself.
Watching this scene clarrified a small thing I did not get when reading the passage. I was not sure if Charley and Willy's dialogue was a fight or if they were just joking around being mean. But now I realize Willy's anger and fustration is coming out It is also having a physical toll on Wily making him seem weak and tired. He is mad at himself because he is a failure and can't teach his sons anything but he cheers up when Ben arrives. He admires and enjoys Ben's visit and has an examplle of someone to look up too for both himself and his boys. He begs Ben to stay and we see how sad he is when Ben leaves.
ReplyDeleteI think what Linda does is good and is something Willy needs. I am glad that there `
1. I really liked the clip, but it was hard to keep up because they were talking so quickly. Its like they were reading from a script without stopping or pausing. Maybe the scene was supposed to be like that, but it seemed almost sped up the way they did it. I did think that it was really good how they faded Ben into the background and kept him blurry for the scene. I thought that was really cool. I didn't really understand the poker though, it seemed like they dealt the cards then someone won almost immediately. I thought it was a good scene though. The "sparring" scene was also pretty interesting, because it was so fake.
ReplyDelete2. I both like and dislike Linda. She clearly knows whats going on, that Willy is borrowing money from Charley, but she doesn't try and stop him or talk with him about it. Linda says "He’s not to be allowed to fall into his grave like an old dog. Attention, attention must be finally paid to such a person." and she means it. She looks after Willy day after day, even though she knows Willy is slowly going insane. He's tried to kill himself multiple times, and Linda is always there to try and help. But Linda doesn't try and stop him either, as she says "I’m — I’m ashamed to. How can I mention it to him?
Every day I go down and take away that little rubber pipe. But,
when he comes home, I put it back where it was. How can I insult him that way?" Well Linda, you should try and help him, not just cry and say you would be "insulting him" if you helped. Linda is a very important character, but she has many serious faults also.
In the clip I was surprised about how Biff and Happy looked. I have always known they're old but they never looked so adult in my head as they do in the clip. I always just imagined them as oversized children but the way they dress in the clip makes them look much older than I had pictured them looking.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if I agree with Linda. There is an assumed amount of respect that a child is supposed to show to his parents and this was even more true back then. Willy may not be a success but Linda has a point that he has no one but his family to appreciate him. She's not saying that they should respect him because of his accomplishments but simply "pay him that respect" because he's their father.
1. I think that the clip is great. Dustin Hoffman does an excellent job of portraying Willy. I do agree with Cat though that Biff and Happy look nothing like i expected. Other than that though, I think that the play matches what I imagined pretty well. The only major difference that I noticed was that I envisioned Willy having a much weaker personality. He actually seems to have some fight in him, whereas i imagined him as being defeated and downtrodden.
ReplyDelete2. Yes I'd have to agree with Linda. I think that Willy is a great man. He is capable of being so hopeful, kind, and charming. The only thing that he ever did wrong was to choose the life of a salesman. I think that this is what caused most of the problems in his life, and if he hadn't chosen to be a salesman, he wouldn't have all of the problems that we see in the book. He should have been, as John said in class, a carpenter, or at least something where you work with your hands.
I really like this clip, but I this idea of Dustin Hoffman who is a little guy being Willy Loman. I think he is a little guy mentally but I feel like physically the contrast between his small mind and personality versus his hug body and looming physique is a really important contrast. I think it is perfect for Linda to be a big woman, or bigger than Willy because she is. Her personality and her mind are so much more powerful and controlling than Willy could ever be. I do think eh way Hoffman plays willy desperately and snarky is perfect though.
ReplyDeleteI agree with her plea. If you love your parents and really respect them then you cannot just love one. I think her desperate attempt to defend her husband and her family against her sons is passionate and fully acceptable. She needed to show some sort of backbone towards people who are supposed to care about her and her husband. I think everything she said was justified and correct and that her children either need to get everything together or top depending on their mother to take care of them.
I really like watching this clip. It is much like I imagined it surprisingly. I start to notice the desperate tone in Willy's voice and it makes me realize how awful he must feel. If his sons don't become successful before he dies, he will never have the satisfaction of being successful himself. Willy, so desperately wants the boys to get inspired by their uncle Ben. WIll wants them to know what kind of a grandfather they had, maybe because Willy knows his sons still have time to make it big. It's so sad to think about sometimes. For example, I know my parents will never in their life be able to do the things I've done in my short 16 years of life. I've done so many incredible things, that I appreciate, thanks to them working their butts off. And I think it is my parents pleasure to watch me enjoy the life they create for me. It must be very painful to see your sons not advance more than yourself.
ReplyDeleteFinally, I think Linda has a lot of sense in what she said but at the same time it may have been too harsh. I don't think it is entirely the sons' faults that Willy is this exhausted. Yes, they neglect him in many ways, and they should help out in some way, at least by being loving and supportive. So I think Linda made a very nice speech that many mothers never say. She asked, "Are they any worse than his sons?" This speech certainly made me think about my relationship with my parents and whether I help out enough or not, so I think it definitely puts the brothers in a situation where they have to think about it. It's good that she unmasked everything and came straight forward about everything. I think we should accept everything she says because I think it's the truth. She wouldn't lie to her children and exaggerate the problem. And if she does a bit, I think ultimately she just wants her sons to open their eyes and make sure they do not become like Willy, but rather more than him.