Willy: Walk away?
Bernard: That's right.
Willy: But if you can't walk away?
Bernard: I guess that's when it's tough. (93)
Maybe the above exchange helps explain a guy that is so hard to understand. Can Willy walk away from the way his life went? Can he walk away from the myriad of bad choices and mistakes he made? Can what he did well—his efforts to be a good father and husband, his dedication to a job that is killing him, his nearly unshakeable belief in his dream—make up for all he didn't do well? Can we walk away from our dreams? This is the quandary for Willy, for all the Lomans: how do you walk way from the life you've created, problematic as it has been? It appears only one Loman can even comprehend this option. Biff.
Take a look at the scene in the restaurant below, from pages 112-115.
This is a crucial moment in the play. The focus of it subtly changes from Willy to Biff, I would argue. And now we see something begin to happen that provides a glimmer of hope in a general hopeless narrative. If this is at all true...
1. Think about what happens in the restaurant, not just in the scene above, but from the moment Biff shows up on 101. What is possibly, potentially, the glimmer of hope that we see here? Go ahead and quote a couple times from the play.
2. For period two only: we haven't really talked about Biff or Happy. So what do you think of Happy? How would you characterize him, using this scene in the restaurant as a starting point?
2. For period five: Willy realizes he has one friend in the world, Charley. Charley, who admits to "nobody [being able] to say I'm in love with [Willy]." Yet he does what Howard won't: he gives Willy money. Is Charley a fool for doing this? Why can he do this while Howard can't or won't?
3. For those who didn't talk in class today. What would you have said if you had spoken up? What point would you have made for any part of the discussion today?
3. For those of you who did talk in class today. Willy behaves awfully toward Biff in the scene above. Either Dustin Hoffman or the director Volker Schlöndorff or both together emphasize this almost petty cruelty in Willy that pops up every so often, mostly when he's at his most stressed. Yet even here, Biff—like Charley—does not reject Willy. It's as if they both recognize something that allows them to overlook the cruelty in Willy. What might they recognize? What makes them not reject Willy?
That's three questions for everybody. Write a couple hundred words. Thanks for the hones responses you gave in class today. We'll see you tomorrow.
ReplyDelete1. From the moment Biff walks into the restaurant, the glimmer of hope is not that he got the job, but that he’s found some sort of motivation to do something with his life instead of letting it sort of waste away while he thinks of something to do, as he has been doing. Willy and Biff and Happy and Linda all know that Biff could have and still could do more with his life if he only bucked up and did it. Granted, still Willy has bucked up and done the work and doesn’t really have much to show for it, but he did make money for sometime and was happy for some time, and Biff could do even greater things than Willy has if he just tried, “I see great things for you kids, I think your troubles are over. But remember, start big and you’ll end big…Don’t be so modest. You always started too low” (64-65). Willy knows that his son has more potential than what Biff thinks he has, and I think that the glimmer of hope here is that Biff finally sees that potential himself.
2. I really cannot get over the way Happy treats his father. I think that the fact that he just pretends that he isn’t even related to Willy just shows how much Happy is centered around business and women. Happy reminds me a lot of Howard in that he gets very uncomfortable around Willy’s deterioration and tries to brush it under the rug and get Willy out of his sights, especially just by claiming to not be related to him in the restaurant, just to impress some girls.
3. I think that Biff looked up to Willy more than anyone else in this book, and he knows that during Willy’s outbursts, it’s not who Willy truly is. He recognizes how Willy’s guilt and his past take over his mind and control him and it hurts him so much to see his father reduced to a ghost that he can’t let him go or can’t leave him in the dust.
1. I think the glimmer of hope that we see here is Biff realizing the reality presented before him and he is not his father. While Biff has been making life changing mistakes since age 17, he realizes that he “is not the kind of man somebody lends that kind of money to” (105). He is not as sad as his father, he has life in him, he’s not a “piece of fruit” (82) or “an old dog” (56), he’s a human being too, and he shouldn’t be making the same mistakes his father has been making. While he realizes that he is not Willy Loman, he also realizes how much respect and admiration he has for Willy when he corrects Miss Forsythe after making a degrading comment about Willy saying, “Miss Forsythe, you’ve just seen a prince walk by. A fine, troubled prince. A hard working, unappreciated prince. A pal, you understand? A good companion. Always for his boys” (114). Biff is realizing that he has the potential to be someone great, to make his father and everyone else proud and fulfill the future he was supposed to have already fulfilled years ago. Biff has been inspired to work harder than he has ever worked before.
ReplyDelete2. Like we said in class, the sense of humanity and the sense of looking at Willy as an entire person with the responsibility to put food on his table, etc, is what is lacking from Howard. Charley has known Willy for years, Bernard has grown up with Happy and Biff and Willy and Charley’s paths have crossed so many times that, while Charley may not like Willy and doesn’t quite understand him, he realizes that Willy is a human being. Charley knows what kind of impact $50 makes in the Lomans world. He has developed a sweet but firm spot for Willy, he knows where the money is going, and I think he sees Willy not as a crazy and weathered old man, but as someone who has genuinely tried to create a life that he was never meant to create in the first place. Business was never supposed to come in contact with the Lomans; its like oil and water. I think Charley can hand him all the money that he needs because he still believes in Willy and he still thinks that he should maintain a little dignity.
3. I would have had more to say about the whole concept of Willy Loman. This play really confuses me in the sense that I don’t know what I’m supposed to be feeling towards certain characters and I don’t know how I would justify certain situations. I don’t think he is a failure, I agree with Linda’s defense, I agree that he shouldn’t be treated like a piece of fruit and he isn’t an old dog that should be left to die. I don’t agree with how Howard fired him and I think it really is the beginning of Willy’s death as a an (ex)salesman. I feel something for Willy and I’m not sure if its pity or a kind of understanding of the kind of pain he’s experiencing. I think that at his core, he’s a good person that didn’t know how to navigate his life and he was one of the unfortunate people that eventually falls through the cracks and everyone looks the other way. It is a wakeup call for Willy to realize that he isn’t making a single cent and he’s just running a massive tab from Charley but I think that Willy’s reality is so harsh and too painful for his mind to handle that having the traveling job and selling was kind of like morphine to him and helped ease the pain of the stark reality a little.
1. The glimmer of hope that we see in this scene is that Biff is willing to own up to the fact that the whole family has been living on a dream, "And then he gave me one look and- I realized how ridiculous my life has been! We've been talking in a dream for fifteen years. I was a shipping clerk." At this point Biff is the only character living in reality. Happy wants Biff to lie to Willy so that Willy won't crumble. Happy, like Linda, is living under this false hope that Willy will be fine living a false life. Linda and Happy try to keep the the truth from Willy to keep him going, but it isn't working. Biff wants to break from the mold, do what he loves and show Willy that that is okay. He is very worried about Willy and says to Happy, "You could help him- I can't! Don't you understand what I'm talking about? He's going to kill himself, don't you know that?" He is the first person in the play to say this aloud, but everyone is thinking this in the back of their mind. Happy and Linda try and block all of this off with lies to themselves and to Willy. Biff is the only person who can say the truth. Biff might be able to get out of this and do what Willy should have done. He might actually be able to do something that he loves.
ReplyDelete2. Charley has a personal connection to Willy. They have known each other for a long time and they are friends. Howard sees Willy as another salesperson or as a statistic as someone in my class said today. Charley can see Willy for the person he is. He knows that Willy is not perfect, but he can see past that. He wants Willy to be able to support his wife and family. Charley is well off and wants to be able to help a friend. He has the compassion that Howard cannot even understand. Charley is a good person. He is willing to take money out of his pocket to give to another person. He even offers Willy a job. Howard only cares about the toys that his worker's profits allow him to have. Charley cares about people and he is a mature adult.
3. I said on my blogs about Linda and Howard that Linda was mostly right, but Howard was wrong. Willy gave so much time and energy to the company. He worked himself into exhaustion. He does not deserve to be treated as "an old dog" and he is not "a piece of fruit." Willy deserves to be at least treated like a human being. Anybody deserves that. Willy was not even being paid a salary for all the work he was doing and Howard still threw him out like yesterday's trash. Business is business, but people are behind all businesses and everyone deserves to be treated with respect.
It's obvious that this scene in the restaurant is not a positive one, I think that there's no denying that. But I think the positive thing one can take from this scene, the glimmer of hope for Biff, is in the fact that Biff really starts to understand here. He opens his eyes for the first time and it clicks for him that his mindset has simply been false. He has the realization that what Willy has engraved in him and what Willy and he himself has believed so whole-heartedly, the fact that he has everything going for him he just chooses not to take advantage of it, that he is well-liked and has the ability to be successful, just isn't true. "We've been talking a dream for fifteen years. I was a shipping clerk." "Let's hold on to the facts tonight, Pop. We're not going to get anywhere bullin' around." "I'm no good, can't you see what I am?" He realizes that being well-liked really doesn't mean much, as Charlie says earlier in the reading, and that it really won't get him anywhere. I don't think Willy has realized this, and something tells me he will never realize it. Biff's realization may look like it's not a positive thing, but I feel like it is. Biff was never going to get anywhere will the false mindset that he had, and now that he has comes to terms with himself and understands himself better it will be easier for him to finds his way. He will be able to apply himself where he knows he can and be successful.
ReplyDeleteUp until the scene in the restaurant, I have to say that I liked Happy. He seemed to be the only one who had his life together, and while he may not be happy with his job and his career, he has a paying job that provides income. Throughout the play thus far, Happy seems to be happy medium (intentional) between Biff and Willy. He is a voice of reason it seems between the two, trying to keep them from going off on one another. Happy also seems to be in touch with himself and who he is, including all of his flaws in that. For example, he comes to terms very early on in the book that he did wrong by sleeping with his bosses' fiances, and he acknowledges the fact that he did so in the first place. But after the whole scene in the restaurant, I have to change my perspective. Biff makes a clear point in saying that Happy could be helping Willy financially as he is in a position to do so, but he doesn't. Biff makes the point that Happy doesn't really care about Willy, which can also be argued as valid. And then, when they are leaving the restaurant, Happy says, "No, that's not my father. He's just a guy." This line is the most telling of Happy so far. Happy does not want to associate himself with Willy, almost how Willy didn't really associate with Happy when he was a kid. Happy doesn't care about Willy, as Biff suggests. He doesn't want to come to terms with the way things truly are the way Biff has by the end of this scene. It's almost as if Happy is hiding from the real truth and from all of the problems that are in his life, and for that I call Happy a coward.
Both Biff and Charley recognize the same thing in Willy that allows them to overlook his cruelty that Linda recognizes. They recognize that he is a hard working man who has tried, who has failed, who is now going through a very trying time, and who needs to be supported and helped simply because he is a human being who deserves as much. Both Biff and Charley recognize what Linda talks about so adamantly earlier in the play, and as people associated with him so closely, I think they feel obligated as human beings to stand by him. I think everyone can think of a time when a friend has been upset about something and because of that they have treated you poorly. You do not take it to heart, because while they may be hostile to you you know it's only because of the hardship they are going through. This applies to both Biff and Charley who to some extent know that the only reason Willy is showing such cruelty is because of the hardships he is going through. I think we know that Willy is not a truly cruel man, as we have seen glimpses of a different Willy completely without cruelty when things are looking up, and Biff and Charley know that too. Because of this they are ultimately capable of overlooking Willy's, temporary I would argue, cruelty.
ReplyDelete1. I see very little hope in the restaurant scene. Willy falls further into his mad stupor of confusion, continuously flipping between the past and the present. Happy proves the he cares very little about his father in the first place. And Biff realizes the tragic nature of the position he is in. The one glimmer of hope could come into play when Biff finally accepts, "I'm no good, can't you see what I am?" For a good portion of his life Biff truly believed, and was brought up to believe, that he was perfect. Only at this point do we see Biff accept that he is faulty. He stops being prideful and accepts what he is and begins to move on. Other than this solitary achievement I found the entire scene to be as depressing, if not more so than the rest of the book. Even after Biff claims, "I realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life has been," we immediately learn that he stole from Oliver's office. Nothing so good occurs in the section that I feel is capable of offsetting the negative tone.
ReplyDelete2. No, Charley isn't a fool for giving Willy money, he's managed to pull of something that I can't, which is to sympathize with Willy. In fact his gesture is incredibly kind and generous. If Charley is not suffering as a result of the detriment to his income that is caused by his generosity than there is no real issue with what he is doing. The fact that I wouldn't personally do the same in Charley's position in no way means that he is a fool for doing this. While Howard 'could' do the same he chooses not to, which, honestly, is his own personal choice. Overall I feel that this transaction between Willy and Charley is simply a matter of Charley's personal sense of responsibility and "friendship" with Willy.
3. This question troubles me a little more. I have no understanding of Biff's forgiveness of Willy. Charley I can understand slightly. Charley has never received quite the same level of harassment as Willy's children, and may have a personal reason to continue giving charity to Willy. But when Biff forgives his father's ridiculous temper and attitude I get confused. Perhaps The fact that Willy is Biff's father results in a high tolerance for Willy's mistakes and behavior. As I have made clear my personal opinion of Willy is less than positive, and I see no reason for Biff to put up with Willy's harassment and horrible treatment any longer.
1. What Biff realizes, be it sad or not, is that he really has no hope of becoming what his father so harshly throws upon him. He is not a businessmen; he is not his father. He realizes, that he cannot live up to the expectations of his father, and like John says, moves on. "I'm no good, can't you see what I am?" (113). Biff has been pushed into this dream that his father was never able to achieve, and he finally stands up to his father, and ultimately argues that he really cannot live up to that expectation. It has been so hard for Biff, and the entire Loman family, because none of them have been able to accept what is now so apparent. Biff now accepts that he is like a failure, just like his father. It is a sad notion, but the fact that he accepts it, and moves on, is miles away from what his father ever achieved. Biff understands that he is not meant for the world of business, and tries to tell his dad that "Ill make good somewhere" (112). The dysfunctional makeup of the Loman family drives the denial in each character, Willy in particular, until this scene, when Biff realizes fully what he must do, or accept his failure.
ReplyDelete2. Happy is the most awful character in the novel. Every thought, every action he does, is for himself, rather than for others. We see him attempting to pick up girls before Biff arrives, and when he realizes that Biff fucked up, he proposes they lie to their father, which is the Loman archetype shining through as it so often does in Happy Loman. Each line Miller adds to his character merely pushes my patience with Happy further and further to the ledge. At that awful moment, when he denies that Willy is even his father, his fate is sealed, his failure certain. In the clip shown above, Willy may be in a delusional state, but he manages to hear, I think, Happy utter those words, which is horrible to me.
3.I think that BIff cannot bare to reject Willy, because Biff feels the desperation that Willy emits. He understands that the fact Willy cannot let go of his dream, which is an admirable quality to a certain extent, leads him to deny that his sons, his last hope for a life, are following his footsteps into failure. I think Biff does not reject Willy because that hope and desperation that Willy has become festered and jaded,no doubt, but he realizes that his anger is merely his hope defending itself. Willy has not yet come to the same realization Biff has, and he is angered by the notion of moving on.
1.The glimmer of hope in this scene for me, like Elizabeth, was Biff’s realization of the truth and Willy’s admittance of the truth. Biff is the first person in the book to really call out what has been happening: the Loman family has “been talking in a dream” (104), something reflected in the earlier scene when Happy was talking about his “feasible idea” (63) for the Loman brothers. The whole Loman family is so deluded into thinking that their reality is not as harsh as it actually is. A few moments later, Willy admits to the boys that he got fired. I think Biff’s honesty and vulnerability in this scene prompted Willy’s. I think that without Biff’s honesty, Willy would have continued lying to his family, telling them he still had job. Willy seems to know that the truth would crush Linda, as he says “the woman has waited and the woman has suffered” (107). But he tells the truth, no fabrications. He admits that he “[hasn’t] got a story left in [his] head” (107). This scene of honesty gives me hope that the Loman family will stop living the lie that they have been living in.
ReplyDelete2. I think that Charley is a friend to the Lomans. The way Bernard calls Willy Uncle Willy leads me to believe that they are very close friends. Howard is viewed as an employer by the Loman family. Like we discussed in class today, business lacks humanity and compassion. The way Willy begs and pleads for a job from Howard, but refuses to accept a job from Charley leads me to believe that there is a definite separation between business and friendship. In business, it is okay for some to beg for a job and maybe embarrass themselves in the process, because, hey, its business. It is a competitive game lacking kindness and people can do anything to stay ahead in the game. But in friendship, if a friend offers you a job out of concern, it means you’re a pitiful person and it would be humiliating to accept. That’s why I think Willy won’t accept the job from Charley. I think due to the nature of the two worlds, business and friendship where one lacks warmth and one has a great deal of warmth, Charley is able to offer Willy the money and Howard simply can’t do it.
3. In class today, the point was brought up that Willy had chosen to be a salesman because he wanted to “be remembered and loved and helped” (81). Willy was looking to be fulfilled by these emotions, and he was seeking them in his job. And by looking for these things in job, the wrong place to look for love and help and remembrance, he lost them from his family, where he should have been seeking validation. Happy won’t help him with money; he gave Willy and Linda only $50 at Christmas time. Both his children resent him, they don’t want to be around him. I see Willy’s quest for validation in his job as another layer to the Loman family dysfunction.
1. This restaurant scene is very depressing. They are just all failures. They've dissappointed their family and themselves. It's hard for me to see the glimmer of hope in this scene, because I feel like Biff is just falling apart. Biff is starting to become just like Willy. Biff is a failure. And I guess the glimmer of hope is that Biff now sees the reality and the truth. He sees how his perspective was skewed. Biff matured a little bit. Biff finally woke up and saw the reality of his life and future. He said, "I realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life as been! We've been talking in a dream for fifteen years. I was a shipping clerk." Biff wasn't a salesman. Biff wasn't a successful salesman. Biff is just like Willy. Biff says, "I'm no good, can't you see what I am?" Biff now sees he is starting to becomce a failure, and he's scared. Even though, Biff now sees the truth and there is a little glimmmer of hope, I don't know if that hope will be enough to help Biff fix his life and perception of his future.
ReplyDelete2. Charley might be one of my favorite character of the play, especailly because of this scene. I think Charley respects Willy and truly cares about Willy. Charley sees that Willy is falling apart and just wants to help him. But Charley does respect him. He offered him a job, because I think Charley is aware of Willy's pride and dignity. He didn't just write him a big check right away. He offered Willy a job to be a man and provide for his family. I think Charley genuinely cares for Willy and is not a fool for giving him money.
3. John asked as about how can you rationalize agreeing with what Linda said and with Howard firing him. I think it's difficult to answer this question, because Linda and Howard are two different part of Willy's world. Linda is part of his family and home, and Howard is his job and business. LInda thinks Willy should be respected as a human being and as a father. Howard is firing him as a salesman. I don't think Howard isn't "firing" him as a human being. (I don't know if that makes sense.) I think Howard was rude and disrespected Willy, but I do agree and see why Howard fired Willy. Howard didn't fire Willy out of disrespect for him as a human being. Howard is running a business. Like I said before, "business is business" and Howard can't pity his employees.
1. To me the small glimmer of hope in this seen is the realization that Biff faces. He finally confronts Willy about his life. There are many parts of this scenes that are based on deception, and many of the characters refuse to believe reality, like we see Willy when he is talking with Charley, "I have got a job" (96), after he was fired. Biff finally realizes that his life has been bad for the past years, " I realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life had been"(104). If Biff realized that he has been going in the wrong direction by trying to achieve the goals that his father had set for him, maybe he can learn to do something he is good at and that he enjoys. Like Jenny mentioned, this scene contains a great amount of truths that are not seen in previous parts of the play. For the first time we see Willy partially admitting his financial status, "I was fired today" (107). Willy's future seems grim but Biff's future may become better.
ReplyDelete2. Maybe he is a fool for giving him the money because it is very likely that he will not get that money back. However, I would have probably done the same thing. Like I mention today, I think that Charley acted differently from Howard because he (like Linda) has a sentimental attachment. I understand that they don't appear to be great friends, but Charley has seen Willy at his lowest. I think that it would be hard not to make a sentimental connection with someone after knowing someone for so long. Also the fact that Charley understands Willy's financial status. Like John said today, they life in the same world.
3. Biff's actions towards the end of the scene tells me that he really admires and cares for Willy. He cares about his health and tries to lie simply to calm him down. Even after everything that has happen, he still cares about him something that Happy does not do. Charley understands Willy and he tries to help him out which makes me think if they were good friends before everything went bad. I think that at the end both of them realized that even though Willy did bad things in the past, he worked hard and care (or try to care) for others. Also that at the end,he is a human beings like everyone else.
ReplyDelete1) The glimmer of hope in this passage is the fact that Biff is strong
enough to call out his father. He could do what Happy tells him to, in
order to make him happy, or he could be honest and stand by his integrity.
This scene shows us that Biff doesn't live in the fantasy world of the
lomans. He could possibly find a way out of the deadly cycle that his
parents have lived on. "Let's hold on to the facts, pop. We're not
going anywhere bulling around" (106). Biff is done with pretending
that life isn't a mess. He is ready to take control and find a realistic
way to bring his family out of the disaster it is in. He is ready to
challenge his father. "Look at you! Look at what's become of
you!" (113). Biff is ready to take a step out of the nonsense that
has clogged the lives of the lomans.
2) Like we said in class today, Willy is viewed in two ways. As a human being, and as a statistic. The reason that Charley gives money to Willy is the fact that he sees Willy's family, and human elements. He resents the fact that Willy is stubborn, but he believes it's the right thing to do. Howard sees him as a statistic. He is a number in a book and nothing else. Because Willy is not a useful asset he is cut. Even though Charley doesn't necessarily like Willy, he is a moral man and knows what he has to do.
3) I've struggled with this question. I believe that Biff and Charley put up with Willy because they secretly care for him. Despite the fact that Willy treats them with the disrespect that he preaches against, they sympathize with Willy. He is a pathetic, and pitiful old man who wants nothing more than to be accepted. He essentially is the "old dog" we have discussed in class. They want to see Willy succeed and be the man that he pretends to be. I found myself wondering why I still hoped for Willy's success, despite the horrible disrespect that he has shown. It reminds me of Great Gatsby, as both Fitzgerald and Miller test our loyalty to protagonists on their road to insanity.
Sorry about the margins, did the question on firstclass.
Delete1. I would say that the glimmer of hope presented is simply the fact that Biff has come to his senses. He no longer has any illusions about his life or his father’s life. He says to Happy, “I realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life has been! We’ve been talking in a dream for fifteen years”(104). He sees how stupid this sporting goods idea was; he sees that there was never any hope of fulfilling the failed dreams of his father. He’s known that he never really wanted that kind of life, yet he kept pushing away his own dream to try and conform to his father’s. Willy failed, Happy is a tool (and unhappy), and Linda is just a passenger on the sinking Loman ship. Biff is now the last chance for success. If he is to be successful however, it will have to be on his own terms. He will never be rich and he will never be famous. He also comes to a realization about his father. “Miss Forsythe, you’ve just seen a prince walk by. A fine, troubled prince. A hard working, unappreciated prince”(114). He then says to Happy, “He doesn’t mean anything to you. You could help him—I can’t...He’s going to kill himself, don’t you know that?”(115) He finally sees his dad. He understands what’s going on. He also sees Happy, and he’s disgusted. Funnily enough, he then leaves Willy to fend for himself at the restaurant. So… maybe he didn’t learn much.
ReplyDelete2. Happy is an awful person. We already knew about his affairs with his bosses’ wives and the sketchy business, but I think that this scene really shows his true nature. This whole thing is like a big joke to him. He’s butting in and trying to Biff to lie to Willy about the deal. He’s trying to hold on to the two women at the table with them. Then, when Biff yells at him and tells him he’s the only one who can truly help Willy, Happy shrugs it off. He gathers the women and leaves that poor, delusional man wandering around the bathroom. He doesn’t give one shit about anything but sleeping with that woman. His character is summed up perfectly by the quote at the top of the blog.
3. I think that they both see a good, suffering man. Willy is a failure and an often ill-tempered person, but he is a good man. He’s never done anything except what he was supposed to do. He followed the rules, but nothing worked out. He cares about his family. He worked for them. He’s literally been killing himself for them for the past 34 years. He’s losing everything and no one can do anything about it. Biff and Charley see this, and they feel bad for him. They know that he’s not the best person in the world, but they see that, as Linda says, “attention must be paid.”
1. I think, in a very depressing way, the glimmer of hope is that there is no glimmer of hope. Like many of you have said, I hink Biff sees that he is becoming exactly like his father. He sees that his life is going nowhere. Willy said earlier "It's contacts, Ben contacts!" yet Biff's one contact doesn't even realize he exists. He has been living in the Lowman bubble of idealism and in this pivotal scene, that bubble pops. This moment of realization is seen when Biff says "I was a shipping clerk". His entire life the facts of his existence have been morphed by the Lowman idealism and he finally breaks free of that. He realizes how desolate his life is. But once he realizes this, he can only go up.
ReplyDelete2. I think Happy is capitalism at its finest (or worst). In this scene he is so ready to lie to his father just so things can seem better than they are. For him if things seem better but are really ignored, they will simply go away. He does not want to deal with anything, especially Willy. He is the most selfish character in the play. Biff outright tells him that he does not even care for his own father. Happy is so ready to lie, make money, pick up meaningless girls and so unwilling to be a real, decent human being.
3. I think what Charlie and Biff recognize is sadness. They recognize Willy's sadness, his desperation and his failures. Yet they also realize the sadness that is his life. They see how awful life has been to him. They see that he masks his anger towards the world by projecting that anger on others. They see a sad, pathetic man and, because I believe they are both good people, they cannot bear to watch him destroy himself.
1. This scene is truly a very sad scene with very little hope involved(though maybe not as much as the next scene in the hotel). Biff has been broken through his "meeting" with Oliver. Willy starts to break down in the middle of the restaurant. We see that Happy does not care for his father: "No, that's not my father. He's just a guy. Come on, we'll catch Biff, and, honey, we're going to paint this town!". (115-116) All three characters have fallen but Biff is the only character that gives a glimpse of hope for the future. He finally realizes that he has been lying to himself: "Dad, I don't know who said it first, but I was never a salesman for Bill Oliver" (106). This step is key for Biff to move on with his life.
ReplyDelete2. He has done what Howard was too lazy and selfish to do. Charley has gotten to know Willy and love him. Charley loves Willy as a human being not a tool used for work. Even Charley knows Willy is worthless for work but still gives him the money. It may be foolish but I would have done the same thing. This goes back to Willy as an old dog. Charley doesn't want to see Willy kicked around like an old dog. Charley sees and feels the pain Willy is going through and tries to help his old friend.
3. This question is quite interesting considering the direction the end of the book takes, but I think both men have so much respect for Willy. He has worked hard his entire life and even when he wasn't good at his job he never gave up. Both Biff and Charley can tell Willy isn't doing as well as he once was and even through his random emotional outbreaks can still find the man they hold respect for.
1. The only glimmer of hope in this scene is Biff's realization of what is really going on with his father. He finally understands that Willy cannot be lied to any further. All he needs is the love and support of his family rather than useless lies. Biff is the only character that truly understands and feels empathetic towards Willy. He finally sees that all of these lies are complete bullshit and are driving Willy even further into his own madness. Biff says to Happy, "How the hell did I ever get the idea to become a salesman...he (Oliver) gave me one look and -- i realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life has been" (104). Biff understands that the reason he has gotten nowhere in life is because he has been brought up thinking that everything will be easy if he is simply good at something. Biff also finally comes to the realization that Willy truly is going to kill himself. Biff says to Happy, "He's going to kill himself...Hap, help him! Jesus...help him...help me..." (115). Biff has quickly become the most human and caring character in this play.
ReplyDelete2. Charley has humanity in a way that Howard obviously does not. Charley has spent most of his adult life seeing Willy continue to make the same mistakes that effect his entire family. As John pointed out when he used Steve as an example today, giving Willy money was simply the right and humane thing to do. How can one not help a man falling to pieces? To Howard, business is business, but to Charley, it is much more than that. He sees what Linda has so strongly seen, that Willy is a human and deserves to be treated with respect. Charley does this even though he doesn't even like Willy, and to me, that is what real humanity is.
3. To be honest, I know my class participation has not been at its normal rate with this book. I find myself constantly struggling with understanding the conflicts between "business is business" and humanity, but this reading has really cleared things up. All Willy wants in life is to be loved, cherished, and respected. He has been so used to getting none of that in his life, starting with his father leaving him at a young age and ending with the treatment he gets from his family and coworkers. All Willy wants is to have a name for himself yet he still doesn't understand that in order to do this, he needs to be passionate about his job. During class today, I thought about how much Willy reminded me of Kevin. Kevin really wasn't set out to be a lawyer, it was never his passion in life. He only became a lawyer because he needed a job that would provide for his wife and unborn child and because he felt pressure from Asheley's father. I think that Kevin assumed that since he was working hard, he deserved to be the best lawyer out there, but it isn't that simple. It's like writing down useless notes during class. Sure, you are essentially doing work, but is it actually getting you somewhere? Willy carries this same idea and assumes that since he works, or rather worked, hard at his job, he deserves to be respected, well-known, and successful. He, along with Happy and Linda, continuously seek false hope.
1. Biffs’ great realization of truth finally brings one member of the Loman family into reality. He finally sees that he has been “living in a dream for 15 years”, playing with horses and hoping for something that doesn’t exist. The Loman family has created a state of mind for themselves separate from the rest of the world, a dream world, where success is present at every corner and the American Dream falls right into your lap, and a shipping clerk is “practically” a salesman. Biff has woken up from the dream, and only now can he start to live in the real world, away from the “ridiculous lie” of his past. But, this ray of hope is only a glimmer because his state of mind may be etched so deeply into his mind that he “can’t explain” why he stole such a petty item. I can only hope that Biff completely comes to terms with his life and becomes the first Loman to actually live.
ReplyDelete2. Charley feels obliged to help Willy not necessarily because they are friends, but because they are neighbors and they are partners in the human race. The community that exists outside of work is imperative to maintain, otherwise society would fall apart. Charley is “no genius”, but I think it is the recognition of that fact that tells him to help Willy. The problem with Willy is that his family, the central social aspect of his life, has abandoned him (Happy and Linda have left him mentally, while Biff physically left). Also, out of all people only the observer (Charley) can see the whole picture of Willy’s life, and recognizes the desperation of his state. As a human, Charley sympathizes with Willy and must help him in his time of need. Howard, on the other hand, is not concerned with the humanity of Willy but rather the “statistical” value of Willy as a liability to his company, and is unable to help Willy.
3. I believe that Willy is both a human and a "statistic". As a human, Willy deserves a level of respect, but that is not given to him because the majority of the people around him see him as a statistic, dying dog, or piece of fruit. Throughout the play, we can see Willy’s attempts to bring those around him to a personal, human level, but the connection fails to resonate and is justly ignored. We see can see Willy as a rotten person, a failing person, a down on his luck person, a dying person—but the majority of people in the play don’t even see him as a person.
1. When Biff enters and starts explaining himself and the meeting to happy and Willy, while I don’t see a future for the family as a whole, as we already are starting to see them fall apart. Willy and Biff are always arguing, Biff has no way of sustaining himself easily Happy rejects Willy as his father in front of people, and Willy is going insane. But, Biff enters, and admits his faults and his lies. “I realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life has been! We’ve been talking in a dream for fifteen years.” In this part of the scene, Biff finally realizes how ridiculous this proposition was and his life has been. “I don’t know who said it first, but I was never a salesman for Bill Oliver.
ReplyDelete2. I am starting to dislike Happy more and more as this book goes on. The same goes with the whole family, but for now, I shall stick with Happy. He takes after his father somewhat, always interrupting, asking Biff what happened, getting excited for no reason. And then, there is that proposition of his to go to Florida. I was just asking myself, “Do you really think that will work?” But what really makes me dislike him the most is that in front of people, just because Willy is acting a little bit loopy in front of some ladies, he denies his father. On the other hand, Biff defends his father.
3. I was going to say something, but never found the opportunity, and I’ve forgotten now. But, I think I wanted to talk about the business vs. moral choice. Howard has an obligation to fire Willy. I can accept that. Willy is badly representing the company with his daydreams, hallucinations, and ramblings. He can become a liability that Howard will most likely have to deal with in the near future. But at the same time, I agreed with Linda’s argument because, well, Willy is old, and has been with this company for 34(?) years. He has practically poured his life into his company. I feel like Howard could have handled the situation a lot better than he did. After all, while he be looking from a purely business perspective, Willy still deserves some kind of compensation for his work. I think Molly mentioned severance pay? I feel like, as Karen mentioned in class, that Howard, seeing this broken old man who knew him as a baby and helped name him, had a moral obligation to help Willy out as Charley did.
1. I think the restaurant scene is the most honest scene in the play so far (well other than the lies Happy tells the women). But Biff really decides to face the truth here. He doesn't want to lie to Willy to make him feel better, like Happy does. He fights to make sure Willy knows what really happened, "Dad, you're not letting me tell you what I wanted to tell you!" (108). Biff is committed to being honest with his father, and therefore more honest with all the problems the family has. Biff admits that he can't stand his father: "Help me, help me, I can't bear to look at his face!"(115). This is hopeful because everyone else in the family rejects reality, but Biff is finally beginning to accept it.
ReplyDelete2. I don't think Charley is a fool for doing this. It's killing Willy not having any money, and I don't think Charley could live with himself if he let that happen. Charley is more closely connected to Willy than Howard is. He knows his family, their sons grew up together, and he genuinely cares about him. Charley sees the Willy at home, whereas Howard just sees the Willy at work. I think that makes it easier for Howard to disregard Willy.
3. I think they see Willy as vulnerable. Even though Willy tries to keep a tough exterior, it is obvious to everyone that he is a weak man. Biff doesn't reject Willy because he couldn't bear to see him suffer more. Charley and Biff realize how much Willy is relying on things like their affection. Similar to my response to question 2, they can't bear to kick Willy while he is down.
One of the things about Biff in the reading that jumped out at me immediately was when he first starts showing actual concern for Willy: "A fine troubled prince. A hard-working, unappreciated prince" (114). This is so totally out of Biff's character from the rest of his appearances in the play. In Willy's flashbacks, he is frivolous and unconcerned, always getting into trouble. Here, he is genuinely thinking about what sacrifices his father made. It's almost as if the weight of his lack of success has finally come crashing down on him, and what that means for Willy; his extraordinary inability to do anything. "I can't bear to look at his face!" (115)
ReplyDeleteWhereas Biff is getting closer to the roots of his problems, Happy seems to be growing further away from them. From the beginning of the play, Happy has always been Biff's overzealous sidekick, annoying Bernard and carrying his helmet to Ebbets Field. Now, Biff refuses to acknowledge the fact that his Dad is in the bathroom hallucinating, or even that he's his Dad. Happy also avoids going to see Mr. Oliver, somehow convincing Biff to go instead. He treats everyone with casual indifference, as he does the girls that he attempts to "score" with Biff.
We've seen, through his flashbacks, Willy in happier times, and this is the side that Charley and Biff are able to see through the facade created by years of under-appreciated work, hardship, and struggle. Willy has tried and failed to raise successful sons, to further himself in life, and this is the part of Willy that takes over, almost coming to blows with Biff in the clip we watched. More and more, Willy can't cope with the troubles he has to face. One of the reasons I like Dustin Hoffman as Willy is his size- he is literally overshadowed by the struggles of life.
The glimmer of hope is that Biff for the first time feels awful about stealing the fountain pen. When he was younger he stole and thought it was funny, but now Biff seems to be the one of the Loman family who finally realizes how society works. When Happy is trying to be happy and not get serious at the restaurant Biff finally cuts him off, “BIFF: strangely unnerved: Cut it out, will ya? I want to say something to you” (103). Biff understands that the Lomans cannot keep pretending that things are going to work out, because if they don’t stop dreaming and start acting, nothing will happen! Biff also now comprehends that you cannot make it in society if you goal is just to be widely liked so you can achieve anything you want, “BIFF: Hap, he’s got to understand that I’m not the man somebody lends that kind of money to…” (105). Biff knows that other people do not think he is reliable and just seeming confident is not going to cut it.
ReplyDeleteI was negatively struck by Happy’s attitude, I really had thought that Biff had been a good influence on him or at least that Happy followed Biff, kind of idolized him, and did whatever Biff would do. However, Happy, unlike Biff, turned out to be exactly the kind of ass hole that Willy is. Happy is a womanizer, and his friends at work are people he’s waiting on to die so that he can take their position…Happy has not learned anything from his father’s mistakes, he is instead following in the same tracks. He might be more successful at his job, so in that sense he is not like Willy, but he isn’t truly happy now, and later on will not be satisfied either, because he wants to be married, but just cannot seem to settle down and really sort out his life. In the restaurant Happy demonstrates that he either does not care at all or is just not capable of taking something serious seriously anymore after all the years of pretending and joking around. When Biff is trying to talk to Happy, Happy is trying to pick up a girl and trying to force a good time even though clearly this is a bad period for their family.
The only thing that would make me not reject Willy is that he is losing his mind and I think Biff and Charley recognize that. It is hard to talk with Willy, because he has visions and gets so tangled in memories from the past that it is impossible to talk to him about the present and what is really going on. However, I think that Biff longs for the father he once admired so much and would do anything for; therefore he is not going to give up on Willy as fast as everyone else does. Biff cares so much and really tries to talk with Willy about the job and financial situation (and really about their relationship), in a way which could be thought of as to recompensate Willy for all the years during which Biff idolized him.
ReplyDeleteI think that Biff finally realizes what he had going for himself and he ruined it. He even says, “I’m no good, can’t you see what I am?” It’s almost like he’s striving for something more honest than Willy. BIff knows and feels his capacities to succeed at certain things but the superficial ideas that he should get into business because that’s the only way, limits his happiness. There’s a bit of hope here that if Biff continues this type of rational honest thinking, he could get ahead of his father in the sense that he could enjoy his job. It seems to me like he really always enjoys farm work until he realizes it’s not “good enough” for some people. There’s a lot of pressure from Uncle Ben throughout the play too. It’s almost like whenever he has come up, the Loman’s are never [cool, popular, or rich enough] for him to stick around. WIlly begs for his approval, but even if Ben likes or loves his younger brother, it doesn’t mean anything unless he helps him. For example, Linda loves WIlly the most in the play but she can’t do anything to help him get a job. So perhaps Biff realizes the whole thing about being well liked is a bit silly.
Well, Happy was always a somewhat hopeful character in my mind. I think of him as a super liberal. He always does whatever he wants, but then isn’t happy. So perhaps I could characterize him as immature, not wise, and a bit selfish. I was so astonished that he would deny his father because the fact that they wanted to have lunch together was a hopefully thing in the first place. I was hopeful that something would get fixed at the restaurant and then I came to the realization that Happy is a bad son. You just don’t do that. To add on more to his characteristics, he is an unappreciative little bitch. [Excuse that] It’s like something a fake plastic in highschool from Mean Girls would do. He is just straight up rude, and that is something that a play/character can and will be remembered by.
I think that perhaps they see that the old age is getting to Willy in a harsh way sometimes. Perhaps the way that he talks to himself allows them to excuse his outbursts. They both know he’s probably got some serious inner turmoil about many things. Biff knows that Willy feels some pain and resentment which is why they are always fighting.
1. The section in the restaurant made Biff seem like a much better person in my eyes. He really seems to be trying to get his life back together. He is out there trying to get jobs to help support the family. He is finally being one of the "fine sons" that Howard thinks Willy has. You can see how extremely excited the idea of Biff's success makes Willy. He immediately assumes that Biff got the job, saying "then you got it, haven't you? You got it! You got it!" He even attempts to jump out of his seat in excitement, but he is too decrepit.
ReplyDelete2. Happy seems to get scummier and scummier as the novel progresses. Biff enters the restaurant and tries to have a serious conversation with him, but all Happy is trying to do is seduce these women. He further lowers himself by constantly making up outlandish lies to tell the girls, that nobody believes. The girls are so used to his lies that they don't even believe that Willy is Happy's father. After this scene, I have definitely begun to respect Biff much more than Happy. Happy does not seem to be taking the family situation any bit seriously, unlike Biff.
3. I have wondered why we don't reject Willy ourselves, as the readers. I can not find anything about Willy's character that is particularly respectable, yet I still do have some pity towards him and his situation. I think Molly's example of her grandfather is a very good mirror of this situation. People in your family can do terrible things, yet there is still something inside you that has to care for them and pardon what they've done. That feeling is very similar to what is going on with Willy, for me at least. There is still some unrecognizable bit of humanity in Willy that I can not seem name yet.
1) I think the glimmer of hope in this scene is the fact that Biff finally realizes how fake everything he's imagined is. He notes how he "realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life has been!" He sees that the Lowmans have been fueled by a false belief of success and importance and he realizes how much they've been depending on the idea of who they are.
ReplyDelete2) Happy is really childish. He knows everything is not alright so he decides he will just pretend it is until everyone forgets. He honestly reminds me of myself at some of my more childish moments. I know that I personally have tried to do just what Happy suggests, "say Oliver is thinking it over. And he thinks it over for a couple of weeks, and gradually it fades away and nobody's the worse," and it does not work out. It's a futile attempt to grasp at what little hope is left for the family and lie to keep it near.
3) I think that Biff doesn't reject him because he loves him. Willy is his father and he can not bear to snap back because he realizes what Willy has lost, especially with his recent realization that he was never a salesman. I think that Biff felt really hurt when he realized that he was just a shipping clerk and I think he realizes that, since Willy just lost his job, Willy is really unstable and unhappy right now. I think that he deals with Willy because Willy has dealt with him for so long.
I was really excited when Biff walked in, because he didn't get the job. Normally this wouldn't be a good thing, but in the Loman's case it is because their last dream has been crushed. This may sound weird because the Loman's have a ton of problems, but in this case it makes Biff re-evaluate his life, and see it for what it truly is. Biff says it loud and clear when he says, "I realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life has been! We've been talking in a dream for fifteen years. I was a shipping clerk." This is literally groundbreaking because it completely destroys the Loman's lives. Its also a step forward too though, because now that Biff is out of the dream world, he can actually work and try do something with his life as opposed to living with his parents.
ReplyDeleteI think Howard is the best friend that Willy could have, because Howard sees the faults in Willy, he understands them, yet he still helps him out because their friends. Howard's son is now a famous lawyer, while one and a half of Willy's sons have failed. Howard doesn't hold it over Willy's head, even though Willy had been so arrogant while their sons were growing up. Both Willy and Howard were good parents, the difference between them is that Howard let Bernard see the truth of the world, while Willy hid the truth and babied Biff. Howard is a good friend because he always supports Willy in his downfall.
I would have talked more about Willy, and his need to be accepted by everyone. Willy's whole goal of being a salesman, was to be known by everyone in a city to the point where if he picked up a phone and dialed a number, whoever picked up would know and like him. Willy need to be accepted overruled his need to succeed and that's where I think he went wrong.
In my opinion Biff realizes he can prevent from becoming what his dad has become. He understands and gets that his father is lost in his own false dreams and hopes. Biff doesn't want to turn out like that and realizes he is on that path unless he does something. Unlike Willy, who is and "old dog", Biff still has time to start fresh and begin living a real life.
ReplyDeleteCharlie giving Willy money is datable. He is a good friend for doing it but he may also be leading Willy to think he will give him money easily. He may also be trying to show Willy his job does generate money. And that way maybe Willy will stop being prideful and Willa accept Charley's help. Charley is being a good/true friend by helping willy and showing sympathy towards him. He is treating and caring for a human being Whois in need of help and attention. He has hope that Willy can fix himself up and turn his life around. He is Doug his job as a friend by offering support for someone in need.
I would have said Willy needs attention but its more like help that will guide him and start him off to a better life. I would have also said all Willy does is complain and he doesn't actually try to Better himself, he kind of expects people to have some sort of sympathy for him and help him out. I wonder why he doesn't try to do something else if he knows he is not good at this salesman business and he doesn't enjoy it. He hasn't tried anything other than his dreams and false ideas of life, sometimes chances have to be taken. I agree with Howard Letting home go but not the way he did.
1. Biff is finally accepting himself for what he is in this scene, a failure. He's the son of a man who's failed and he's heading down the same path. Biff sees this in this scene and finally realizes that he must be the one to change it. No meeting with Oliver or anyone else is going to change how much of a failure he is. Biff says, "I realized what a ridiculous lie my whole life as been!" He's coming to terms with the fact that he let himself down and that he was thought of as the best, but in reality he was everything less than that.
ReplyDelete2. This scene shows Happy as much sleazier than in every other scene. All he cares about in this scene is partying and getting girls and he's perfectly content to go on living a lie. He's much less admirable in this scene...not that he ever really was. It bothers me that for once Biff is trying to set things right with his father, but Happy is being a selfish brother and won't let him.
3. I think something that Biff recognizes in Willy that others don't is that he has the potential to be just like him. It wouldn't be hard for Biff to turn into Willy given the way his life is gone and this make Biff feel bad for his father. He doesn't reject Willy because he would be rejecting himself if he did.
Sorry for the late response. I got in late last night.
Delete1. One small bit of hope that I see is how Biff is starting to realize and talk about his own characteristics. He is finally owning up to the fact hat he is not a business man, and that he shouldn't be trying to work in a business world. He is much better suited off on a farm in the great outdoors, rather than, in his words "begging" to his superiors. What seems to be the demise of everyone in this play is their single focus on money. They don't think about anything else, and in a world where getting money is one of the most difficult things to do, they have set themselves up for failure. For Biff to realize that this isn't the life he wants, he is becoming more aware of himself and his role in life, which I think is very hopeful.
ReplyDelete2. Happy is definitely not the nicest guy. As we see, especially in this scene, Happy is a huge womanizer, seemingly conquesting women every single night. In general, he just seems sort of sleezy in that respect. However, I also think he is kinder than Biff, especially to Willy. If anything, Happy tries to quell the disputes between his family members. He keeps people level headed. I wouldn't say I really like him though. Sure, he is the only character who really understands Biff, and he tries to stop fights, but in the world of money, jobs and success, he is just as lost as Biff is.
3. TALKER: They seem to reject Willy, if anything. They walk out on him at diner, and end up getting into a huge fight. Willy is an asshole in this scene as well, talking over his son and not letting him finish his sentences. I would act the same way if I was Biff. It's hard to talk to someone life Willy without losing your patience.
ReplyDelete1.The glimmer of hope is that Biff has finally done what Willy has wanted form him, that he has finally found the motivation that he has lacked before. For years he has simply been lethargic, living under the expectations of his father, always feeling the weight of his judgment on his back. Now he realizes that he does not have to be the man his father wants him to be, and with the realization comes with new motivation that he can do whatever he likes with his life, to do what he loves without feeling obligated to follow his father’s wishes.
2. Happy is constantly living up to his brother’s legend, his brother who had the talent to be what the Lomans define as “success”. He is a horrible man, in every aspect, from his treatment of the women in the restaurant to abandoning and dismissing his father.
3. What causes those in the play to not reject Willy is also the quality that made it so hard for us to deem him a failure. This quality is his desperate hard work, work to be remembered. Willy is no slacker, but a man who is driven by desperation, a will to attempt to succeed, to go into the jungle and to come out rich.
Disastrous is the only way to describe the scene at the restaurant. They all have to face their failures, and own up to their lies to each other. Despite their obvious struggles, they are fortunate to have each other. Family is really what they rely on, and there's hope in the fact that they can finally admit to their shortcomings, and mistakes, and they will not leave each other. They will forgive each other. Even Linda, is sure to forgive Willy, who tries so desperately to protect her, "I’m looking for a little good news to tell your mother, because the woman has waited and the woman has suffered". This initial confiding, is difficult, Willy doesn't want to hear anything but what he wants to believe and Happy is just constantly trying to appease him, but Biff is the first one with courage to be honest with himself, and his family, because he is the only one with nothing to lose. He has no reputation yet, no image to maintain. He is already a failure, so he can only go up.
ReplyDeleteFriendship is such a human thing, and Charley is Willy's only true friend. Charley feels obliged to help Willy out, especially if he has the means to. Even if it is the right thing to do, Willy is only supporting the lies that Willy brings home. As a friend, he should be to one to help Willy accept the truth, however, that may be going well above and beyond his role. The money that Charley gives Willy is not an investment, Charley knows he is not going to see that money again, but seems okay with it, and it seems that it is almost more for the sake of the family than just Willy.
Willy is as Linda says, a human being. He's made countless mistakes and deserves a lot of the treatment he receives, but his intentions have always been righteous and there is no doubt he tried as hard as he could do to the best for his family. Willy's story is tragic, there is no doubt about that, and its that tragedy that Biff and Charley and Linda recognize. Despite Willy's foul personality, the ones closest to him, are able to see past that to a man, who is fundamentally the same as everyone else.