Willy: No question, no question, but in the meantime...
Howard: Then that's that, heh?
Willy: All right, I'll go to Boston tomorrow.
Howard: No, no.
Willy: I can't throw myself on my sons. I'm not a cripple! (83-84)
This, to me, is one of the greatest moments in American Theater, Willy Loman's destruction. Take a look below at this scene with Dustin Hoffman and Jon Polito as Howard:
This is the moment where Arthur Miller truly tests our commitment to Linda's view of Willy—if we are committed at all to the notion, as we said at the very end of second period today, that we have to respect the sanctity of Willy's humanity, as Linda pleads with us to do. In the past, many students could not go there. "Business is business," Howard tells Willy in a country whose business is business: and what that saying means to Miller becomes brutally clear here.
So:
1. Quick question. Do you care about Willy's fate? Or has he alienated you to the extent that you don't care whether or not he is fired? As I said in class, Miller deliberately made Willy a difficult character, as many of you said in class today. This is particularly clear during the Loman Brothers scene where Willy constantly belittles Linda. So do you still find yourself caring about what happens to Willy?
2. Dysfunction, thy name is Loman. The problem with the Lomans we see so clearly with Happy's "feasible idea" of the Loman Brothers. What does this show to you about the Lomans?
3. Finally. Should Howard have fired Willy? And why?
That's it. See you tomorrow.
1) Yes, I care about Willy's fate, if only for the survival of his family. He is a mess, and although it is out of his control, his downfall is leading his family into a crisis. I hope the best for Willy because I hope the best for the futures of Happy, Biff, and Linda. Willy hasn't done anything in my mind to be deemed undeserving of a good future, he is simply not in the drivers seat of his own life. He is trying to lead a family, when in real life his family is struggling to keep him afloat. The scene where Willy gets fired is not a scene of redemption or justice, its depressing in that this man has now solidified his failures. He is forced to look himself in the eye and realize what he's done. I am worried for Willy's future, not rooting for his demise.
ReplyDelete2) The Loman's are all idealists. Each one has his own dreams for success and elaborate plans for the future, yet the failure comes from their lack of ability to fix it. Willy lives in his own fantasy world where he is a successful business man. Biff and Happy aren't going anywhere in life, yet they are convinced that success is right around the corner. Linda is the only stable character in this family, and keeps this "dysfunction" from turning into all out chaos. This family is like a slowly sinking ship convinced that an imaginary help is on the way.
3) Yes, unfortunately. Howard is a kind man, but he is a business man. He is not immoral; he realizes that letting Willy keep the job is the right thing to do. The world of business is not run by morals, however, and Willy is not putting his fair share. Howard does not tell Willy he is fired, he let's him go when Willy asks for more. Howard is sympathetic to Willy, but not to an extent that would jeopardize the safety of his business.
1. I really don't know if I care. Part of me has no respect for him because of the way he treats his family, but part of me wants him to succeed. Like Cat was saying in class today, there's a difference between feeling sympathy for someone and calling them a failure. You can do both at the same time. I do feel bad that he's so lost and doesn't know how to get it together, but at the same time I can't ignore the fact that he, like Sam said, hasn't accomplished anything at all. I think at this point I don't care what happens to him because his fate is sealed. He has exhausted himself to the point of uselessness and maybe the family would be better off without him.
ReplyDelete2. The Loman Brothers so desperately want to impress their father and they do with this idea. However, they still act like boys. They dream up this big idea but have no work to show for it. They haven't put in any effort to make "a million dollars." The Loman Brothers are living a fantasy just like their father in that they can't tell what's a dream and what's a real possibility.
3. If Willy can't perform his duties properly then he deserves to be fired. But Willy has been such a valued member of this firm for 30+ years. He's been loyal and has worked well beyond his ability to keep up. Howard should have done more to compensate for Willy's exhaustion.
1. I feel bad for Willy. He is in pure desperation for success, money, and happiness. I do care a little bit for Willy's fate. He's trying so hard, but yet still failing. And I can personally relate, when you work so hard and you still fail. I do agree that sometimes Willy can be a jerk, and I don't think Linda deserves that. But I still care about what happens to Willy. I think Willy is just frustrated and exhausted and sometimes takes that frustration out on LInda.
ReplyDelete2. I don't quite understand this question, but I'm going to try and answer it... I think Biff and Happy think that achieving the american dream is easier than it actually is. I think they can just go to Oliver and get the money and move out west and become successful and rich. But there's much more depth to achieving the American Dream. I think Biff and Happy have a little bit a of a skewed perspective and are a little blinded. They have a similar perspective to their father. They don't realize that they have to drive and passion to achieve their dream.
3. I can see why Howard fired Willy. Business is business. The real world is harsh and there's no exceptions. Howard is running a business and he can't pity his employees. But I do also feel bad for Willy, because Willy and Howard do have a personal connection. Willy knew Howard's father.
1. Willy is a difficult character, and I still cannot let go and accept his fate after watching the clip above. It is hard, because it seems that Howard merely thinks he is getting rid of Willy's pride; Willy brags about his two sons so often Howard believes they can support his family easily. In reality his sons are in no moral condition to do so. But watching Willy Loman lose his job, his american dream, is horrible to me. He does cheat on his wife and he does disregard his failure, but part of what the american dream includes is that chance to succeed. Willy may have missed his chance, but in this scene to me, it seems the system has taken his chance.
ReplyDelete2. The way that the entire family clings to that small notion of starting a sports team, and working together, is one of the most pitiful moments in the book. Each character fantasizes about how "marvelous" the "million dollar idea" is. The desperation the family has, the endless search for reassurance that they have not failed, is really quite sad. Linda is so hopeful when she begins to say how things may look up, but Willy is too excited with the notion of a bright side that he talks over her. We know as a reader that any efforts the family take to revive their dream are fruitless, which adds a heavy irony to their hope that I think Miller so beautifully executes.
3.Like I said previously, Even though it may have been harsh to fire Willy, from Howard's standpoint he believes Willy has the ability to employ his sons and use them to make an income rather than work into his late years. Howard thinks he is merely giving Willy a way to swallow his pride, and retire for god's sake. But in reality Willy has denied his son's failure so much that it has even seeped into the minds of his colleagues, as well as himself. But in this moment when Willy is fired, he realizes that the lies he has been telling himself and the people around him can no longer cover his tracks. He has lost all hope in reviving his dream, it is only was only a matter of time and to as how it would be crushed. To me, Howard was merely the first item on the long list of ways Willy would have lost his job, along with his dream, so Howard was justified in firing Willy Loman, a man tired to the death.
1. I do care about what happens to Willy, however, from the title of the book and talking in class we've found out that this is probably the last week or two of Willy's life, so it's not about caring what happens to him for the next 30 years, it's more about caring about what daily events happen in the next couple days. I really don't like the character of Willy and i think he's a failure, but it's hard for me to call him that and I do sympathize with his character quite a lot.
ReplyDelete2. We've analyzed the Lomans so much already and we can see that the entire family is filled with a want for something more than what they have. The entire family is unsatisfied and unfulfilled, but Willy, at least, sort of has come to accept the fact that he can't make anymore out of his life than what's currently in front of him. However, Happy and Biff are both much younger than Willy, and Happy has his father's maybe false optimism and his want to move forward. He isn't happy with what he has, though he may seem like he has it all to someone like Biff. I think that Happy's suggestion is sort of a compromise for the entire family. Linda just wants the entire family to be together. Willy wants his children to be more successful than he ever was. Biff wants to work out West, but he also wants to be with his brother, and Happy just wants to be happy and make his family happy.
3. I'm not really entirely sure if I think Howard should have fired Willy. I mean, of course he shouldn't, in that now the entire Loman family has to scramble somehow to have enough money to have bare necessities, but at the same time, the company didn't have enough room, they've already cut Willy's salary and he's very easily dropped out of the company without so much as a wave goodbye.
As you guys answer these questions, particularly number 3, remember what you wrote on the previous blog about agreeing or disagreeing with Linda's plea for Willy. It seems to me that Miller is asking us whether we really agree with Linda. If you agree with her plea for Willy's humanity, then how can you agree with Howard's firing of him? If you said yes to Linda and yes to Howard, then in your answer for number 3 address how you can be for Linda and yet agree to Willy being thrown away like a piece of fruit? They seem to me to be mutually incompatible positions. Help me understand how you can agree that Willy should not be treated like a dog and then agree to him being treated...like a dog? Please, address this in your response.
ReplyDelete1. Despite his questionable character and the terrible way he treats his family, I do care about what happens to Willy. But the only reason I feel invested in things turning out well for Willy is because I don’t want Linda and Biff and Happy to suffer more than they already have. They all know now about the rubber pipe connected to the heater, and Linda knows that the only reason it is not there any more is because Biff removed, not Willy himself. It’s apparent that Willy is not getting better or changing any time soon, and it’s because no one confronts him about anything. Linda, Biff, and Happy are all emotionally tied to Willy. When Willy’s upset or angry, everyone else gets upset or angry. Everyone is depending on Willy to make something right to restore some kind of happiness to the family. I’m very much rooting for something good to happen to Willy. I want Willy to be able to affect his family in a positive way. When Willy gets fired, the first thing I thought of was the added layer of sorrow their would be in the Loman household and how that would affect Linda, Happy, and Biff with his new sense of purpose.
ReplyDelete2. I agree with Ben in that I think that the whole Loman family is so optimistic when they have no reason to be. They all have what they think are realistic goals and plans for the future, but in the end, nothing comes to fruition. Willy had the idea of going to Alaska to become rich. Biff once had the future of going to college and becoming a football player. Linda has the dream of things getting better, and she believes it will come true. Every Loman sets these ideas for their future because with the American Dream, you can accomplish anything you desire. But I think that the Loman family is not in the position to make these dreams reality. I don’t think they have the ability, emotionally and financially, to accomplish these things.
3. While I was rooting for Willy, I do think Willy should have been fired. Willy is falling apart by the second and not in a graceful way. He’s fine one minute, passionately yelling the next. Willy’s sanity is rapidly deteriorating, and in the scheme of things, I think it is better that he got fired now rather then later when he is really on the edge. But I don’t think Howard handled it correctly by showing off to Willy, disrespecting Willy, then firing him. The way Howard fired Willy seemed very unprofessional to me, and the firing should have been less messy then it was.
1. I don't care about Willy's fate. This is not to say that I don't care about the fate of people who are in the horrible position that he is in. But in Willy's specific case, he dug himself a hole, and everyone in his family contributed to digging the pit deeper. He's gotten to the point at which I think that for his own sake he stops this façade. I know that we've talked about the fact that it is hard to condemn Willy because he's been working so hard, but after this latest reading I find it increasing difficult to sympathize with his lies and mistakes. I hate Willy as a character. His constant disrespect of his wife. In reality every decision he makes. With each page I grow to dislike Willy more and more and at this point I was neither surprised nor particularly disheartened when Howard fired him.
ReplyDelete2. "The Loman Brother's" seems like one last grasp at what no one in the Loman household has managed to attain. The two brothers want so badly to succeed that they are willing to throw all of their stock in a questionable idea that seems doomed to fail. No one in the family has attained any of their goals and this whole idea is their way of fooling themselves into a false sense of security. The whole situation can only really be described in one way, which is desperate. At this point they have nothing to cling to. Everything they could put their hopes into is gone, and Happy's sudden idea provides them with something to cling to and pour their dreams into. If the rest of the book is any indicator I do not doubt that their dreams will be crushed.
3. I think Howard's treatment of Willy was completely deserved. Howard treats Willy exactly how Willy treats Linda. In addition to this I feel that Howard made the right decision in firing Willy. Willy is so long gone that he drove himself off of a bridge in a suicide attempt. Willy argues with himself out loud. All in all, while Howard was being an ass to Willy, I am challenged to sympathize with someone who is equally as much of an ass to quite literally everyone we've met in the play so far.
1. I definitely still care what happens to Willy. He’s made mistakes in life. He failed as a salesman. He never learned how to be that great a father. He’s dismissive of his wife, and he cheats on her. He can be sort of abrasive at times. However, I don’t think that he is in any way a bad guy. His flaws and is failures aren’t all there is to him. Can anyone really say that he is now just an adulterer? He obviously cares about his family. He wants nothing but for his sons to succeed. Now the business that he’s been in for 34 years simply has no room for him. He came up in the world with so many expectations about what life as a salesman would be like and how successful one can be just by being well liked. Well, he found out that none of his expectations would actually come true. He found out much to late. He’s held together this non-sustainable business model for decades and he’s paid for it with his sanity. His world is ending; he’s attempting suicide. I don’t see his affair with another woman as grounds to discard him as a piece of filth.
ReplyDelete2. To me this seems to show that they haven’t really learned anything. Or, they realize that their life as a family is so far-gone that they can do nothing but grasp at hopeless straws. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Biff and Happy will not be successful in their conquest to make a million dollars via sporting goods and sibling rivalry advertisement. Even with Biff dressing in a suit. We already know that Willy doesn’t succeed on his end (getting a local job). The question is: how will everyone react when they find that there truly is no hope in their plans? Willy’s held it together for the most part until now, but when he realizes that his sons are still failures and that he literally has no way to pay his bills, he’ll probably go back to attempting suicide.
3. As bad as I feel for Willy, there really was no reason for Howard to keep employing him. It’s not Willy’s fault, and he did nothing to deserve this. But it’s not about a punishment. It’s about business. I do that Howard was a total jerk though. He completely dismissive, and I can’t believe that a man in his position couldn’t help Willy out in some way. He could’ve at least been a little more comforting.
1. I understand all the bad stuff that Willy has done in the past, but I could not help feeling bad for him. In my opinion, this is due to the fact that I have seen Willy's problems and I realized that this is going to be very hard for him and his family. I really care about Willy's future. Even if he committed 'bad' acts on his life, he has family that depend in him. I think that I mostly care about his family, but the way he was shown, desperate, almost(if not) begging, was very touching. I sympathize with him because this moment of failure is a moment I wish I will never experience.
ReplyDelete2. I think that the great thing about their way of thinking is that they dream big but they do not know how to get there. Sure anybody is capable of coming up with ideas, but the real test is making this happen. In my opinion, the way the boys were raised was to shoot high but they never learned how to get there. Willy always taught them to dream big but he never showed them that they had to work their butts off in order to make it happen. I think that in a sense he protected them from hard work. They grew up hearing his dad talking about success but he never told them how bad he was doing until it was too late. It is okay to dream big as long as you know how to get there.
3. Firing someone is never an easy task. I felt bad for Willy but I understand why Howard did it. For what I understand, Willy was barely selling and he created various 'accidents'. Howard has to think about the rest of his company even if he cares about Willy. On the other hand, I felt that Howard was possibly a bit mean about it. Since the beginning, he kept ignoring Willy and told him about his machine. Then he paid no attention to him when he was telling his story. I think that Willy deserved a better explanation than the one he was given. But at the end, business is business.
1. As we’ve said in class, Willy is bipolar. I feel like there are 2 different Willy’s and they come out in different situations. I feel sorry for the Willy that, even at the age of 60 years old, has to live day to day in terms of the amount of money he is making. I respect that Willy’s determination to keep going even though he knows that he doesn’t like his job and he isn’t good at his job. I think he’s almost a role model for Happy and Biff when hes like this because it shows them what their futures could potentially look like and it shows them that even after 35 years of hard work for the same company, nothing is ever secure. I do not feel any compassion for the Willy that shuts Linda down every second, the Willy that is filling his 30 year old sons with ridiculous ideas and false hope, and the Willy that thought he could beat the system of corporate America. I care about what happens to the good Willy and the one that will probably die trying to make ends meet, but I don’t really care for the Willy that won’t accept his reality.
ReplyDelete2. I think this moment shows that as a family they are desperately clinging to any idea that can make them earn some money fast. I think it’s, as Cam said, a pretty pathetic moment and I think this moment also shows Happy and Biff’s slow descent into Willy’s territory. Linda has finally instilled in them that their father has lost it and that they really are struggling and the boys turn to each other and decide to just come up with any idea that could help their situations. Both of the sons are already not the most successful young men out there and with the creation of this new sports team business, they’re just grasping at straws. They are slowly entering the depths of reality in a post war era where not everyone can achieve and only the best and the brightest have a chance of making a secure future. Both Happy and Biff are just turning into Willy banking on this new scheme.
3. Yes and no. I think yes because it finally solidifies the reality that Willy has been avoiding for a very long time but I also think no because now Willy has all of this time to come up with some other ideas (that won’t be good) and he’ll go even crazier. I also think that Howard shouldn't have fired Willy because now everything Willy has ever worked for has vanished into thin air. He lost so much of his life working as a traveling salesman and now it was all for nothing. But I also think this moment emphasizes the theme that nothing is concrete and secure in the business world of America.
1. I actually sort of do care about Willy's fate. It is sad, to see a man who is so lost and upset. It's sad that he chose to have such a pitiful life. What I think is the most sad is that I think that he is a good person, but he chose the wrong life. It's really unfortunate that Willy's life was wasted the way it was. If only he had chosen to do something other than sales, he maybe could have had a happy and successful life.
ReplyDelete2. What's so amazing is how romantic the Lomans are. They are the complete opposite of realists, taking a random idea and imagining an entire new world unfolding before their eyes. It's the same scenario that we saw in the flashback to Biff's high-school days, when Willy thought that his sons would go off and become rich successful men. He is almost manic depressive, at times buoyed by ridiculous dreams and at others completely flattened by his depressing life. It is a very American thing to do, to get caught up in fantasies like this, and I think that the play is pointing out just how childish it is to act this way.
3. I think that Willy entered a world that he wasn't ready for, a world in which only a few succeed and the other have to beg and plead to scrap by each month. Of course he deserves to be fired; he isn't an adequate salesman. How could one sustain a business while keeping him on board. It's a sad but true circumstance.
After Molly's answer I asked for everyone who agreed with Linda to rationalize that agreement with Howard's firing of Willy. No one has even attempted this. It would be an understatement to say that I am disappointed. Tomorrow there will be a writing in class on this question. Come on, guys, think about the question I'm posing. It's the heart of the play. So business is business means firing an old man who is asking for what? Pay attention to the details in the play. How has Miller characterized Howard? Does it mstter that he has a toy that costs twice as much as what Willy asks for—a salary that won't even cover his bills? Read closely.
ReplyDelete1. I definitely feel bad for Willy here. When he is finally starting to feel good about himself again, he gets knocked down to a new low. I don't think Willy understands how to behave, he is like a child. After Howard leaves the first time Willy realizes that he was yelling at him and he is upset about it. Willy isn't trying to be disagreeable, but he is so hurt in this scene and so much is riding on it for him that he gets angry. It makes sense to me and I actually feel the most sorry for Willy that I have throughout the whole play so far.
ReplyDelete2. The Lomans don't understand reality. I like Jake's choice of word "romantic". They see the work that will actually make them money as boring and draining, so they would rather put all their money into something that seems fun. But it is obvious that their plan wouldn't work; it doesn't even make sense. They are stuck in the past; Biff is not the great high school athlete he used to be. And even when he was, it didn't actually get him anywhere.
3. I think no. It's complicated, and Willy certainly wasn't the best employee, but I disagree with , Howard's choice to fire him now. Like John points out, Howard is clearly well off, and he is much younger than Willy. I think it was disrespectful of Howard to fire Willy after he showed up begging for help. Howard kept Willy for so long, it seemed wrong to fire him in that moment, when he was already weak. I had mixed feelings on Linda's plea. I thought it was nice for her to stand up for him, but that she deserved more than what Willy gives her. Willy can be a bad husband and father, but that doesn't correlate with Howard's choice to fire him. Willy does deserve more than Howard gives him.
1. I absolutely care about Willy's fate. Whatever happens to Willy will happen to his family and Willy knows that. He is trying so hard to seem strong and keep his job. He is the reflection of all things he dislikes. He is literally begging and groveling on his knees for Howard to let him keep his job. I also noticed that he picked up Howard's lighter and handed it to him when he had just told Biff to never pick something up for Oliver because that is what office boys do. It is incredibly hard NOT to feel sympathetic towards Willy when the entire family's future is riding on Willy's income.
ReplyDelete2. The Loman's are completely messed up. Rather than living in the now they are set on this idea that the american dream is easily achievable if only they did _____. They are constantly coming up with ideas like the "Loman Brothers" and convincing themselves that everything will be ok. What truly irritates me is that all they do is come up with ideas rather than actually doing something. Linda also is creating a fantasy world for Biff, Happy, and Willy where she pretends that everything is ok, everyone is trying, and everyone will be rich in a heartbeat. The entire Loman family is very immature and needs to look at life in a more realistic and less dysfunctional way.
3. This is a tricky question. Willy is obviously not making the sales that he should be but I think that it is entirely inhumane to fire someone like that. Howard treated Willy like a small child and "a piece of fruit" rather than a person. While I am sure that Howard had some good reasons for firing Willy, I think that he could have done it in an entirely different way than telling him to get over it and go to his sons for help. In the last blog post, I agreed with Linda and thought it was right that she provided him with some false hope and support, but after reading this section I am not sure what I think. On one hand, I think that it is great that Linda has Willy's back, but on the other hand, I think that by giving him false hope and support, Linda has aided in Willy's firing. I think that Linda is being a little too pushy in her support and is starting to become desperate, as seen when she keeps nagging Willy to ask for a job in town. Also, I think Linda is providing Willy with the idea that everything is going to be fine no matter what you say or do, which definitely is not true. While Linda is helping Willy keep his sanity, she is also adding to his destruction.
1. Willy is a sad old man that constantly gets beaten down. I feel terrible for him when he is fired and shoved aside like a lump of coal but when he is cruel to Linda and tries to abandon his life by suicide I start to dislike his personality. Miller has formed this difficult bipolar character to ask which side is right. Flaws are obvious in both sides. Linda is constantly trying to give Willy encouragement so he can't see his own flaws. While Howard doesn't even listen to Willy because he is too busy playing with his new toy. After all these years Willy is still pushed aside but this is wrong. I do care about Willy's future because as Linda said in last nights reading Willy is a human being after all. Howard is just damn rude to treat another human like that over a stupid toy.
ReplyDelete2. They get overly excited at the very mention of a new idea. They all have this child-like side to their personalities in which none of them consider the process or consequences of the idea. The family has an illusion that if they could just break away from the business world everything would work out. The entire family is angry at this society just because they don't fit in. They belong in the West or with Ben but Willy missed his chance because Linda talked him out of it. I think through Willy we see that if you follow your own dreams you will see results, but if you don't failure will follow. This Lomans live in the past thinking of the actions they should have taken.
3. No. Firing Willy abruptly was a terrible thing for Howard to do. I think Howard should have slowly released Willy. Howard should have gotten to know if Willy was having any trouble and given him time to settle again before slamming Willy down again. Howard regarded Willy as less than human watching his new toy instead of Willy. This fits in perfectly with Linda's plea stating Willy should have more respect. That people need to treat him as a human being that is trying so hard instead of throwing him aside and caring only for themselves. Howard is selfish and doesn't put himself in Willy's shoes. This is what Linda pleas for. At this time period in the book no one cares for each other anymore.
I do care about Willy's fate. Yes, Willy has alienated us and we have seen the way he treats Linda and his sons at times, and most definitely we have seen that Willy has his faults and has done his wrongs, but one cannot deny that he has been trying so hard to provide for his family, and he has worked himself sick despite those faults. It is hard not to be sympathetic towards Willy because all of his work, it's simply not paying off. As Linda brings up, Willy is not a great man, but he is a man who is going through a hard time and as human beings we need to support him. I personally am drawn to this argument made by Linda, and because of my sympathy I do care about Willy's fate. Because I am sympathetic towards him I want to see Willy succeed for the sake of his family, as he's tried so hard to support them his entire life.
ReplyDeleteFor this question, I definitely agree with what Amanda says. I think that this scene really shows us the Lomans in that the Lomans are childish. They have this big idea and a big imagination, but they are, as John says, dysfunctional and cannot carry out their plans. It is not only Biff's childishness that is a major issue and theme, which the play brings up time after time, but the childishness of the entire family. I think that's why Biff's character is even in the play at all, to be used as a gateway to see the real underlying problem with the Lomans; that they are childish. It's like when we are kids, we think up these terrific ideas of what we are going to be when we grow up, and we think up different kinds of gadgets and inventions, but as soon as we try them or attempt to make them real, we realize that our imaginations got the best of us and that we can't always do it. For me, it was making a pair of cardboard wings and trying to fly off of the trampoline. That is what The Lomans are doing here, and I think that while part of it is that in a way they are forced to believe it will work because they need it to work, the main part is that they truly believe that they have a great idea that will make them successful. And, this false hope is what ultimately makes them a childish family.
I do not think Willy should have fired Willy. As John has brought up, this scene ties directly into Linda's speech about Willy from the previous reading. Linda talks about how he is not a great man, but he is going through a hard time and AS HUMAN BEINGS we have a duty to stand by him and support him. I agreed with Linda's statement last night as it is completely valid and to me it is just stating the facts, and I stand by her statement tonight. Willy, as Linda brings up, has been working for this company for decades. He has given everything and worked so hard for the company, and as reward for working himself crazy he gets fired. This is sure as hell not giving Willy the support at this time as Linda suggests. I think that Howard especially has a duty to be sympathetic towards Willy and to support him because as he is the boss, Willy has been working his ass off for decades not just for his family but also for Howard and his company. Howard needs to realize that he has only tried for years and years to sell for the company, thus helping it to prosper, and as a human being and as his boss, he owes him as much as to let him keep his job. Yes, as Linda says, he's not a great man, and he's never really been a great salesman. But I think despite this, Howard owes this to Willy as a human being to another human being for his efforts over the decades.
1. I don't really care what happens to Willy. As harsh as that sounds, if he were younger and his demise was not imminent perhaps I would be more sympathetic. I do, however, care about his legacy. His story is almost over. He has nowhere to go. No matter what changes in the next week, it's over for him. He chose to be awful to Linda and chose to ruin his own future, however there is still hope for the boys. I want him to live on and someday hopefully succeed vicariously through the boys.
ReplyDelete2. They are idealistic to the point of detrimental. They create these facades of success. Both Willy and the boys get these crazy ideas, they say they will accomplish these crazy feats yet they never will. I like to think the boys will succeed. They do have goals and dreams that could possibly come to fruition. I believe their inherent over-idealism is the one thing that could block their success.
3. While I don't want Willy fired, I do see him as a failure but I still want him to succeed, I think it was what Howard had to do. I pity Willy because of the debts he owes and because Linda relies on him. I feel sorry that he had to end up this way. However, his choices are what got him here in the end. He is old and cannot see that his time is over. howard could have been more tender towards Willy. He didn't have to snap at willy. At the same time, Willy yelled at him, guilt tripped him and egged him on. In the end I think the firing will lead to Willy's death but it is unfair to blame this all on Howard who was just looking out for him business.
The only sympathy I have for Willy is there because it’s sad to see how he is treated by Howard, whom he saw grow up and now is working for. It’s sad to watch him struggle to convince this “life-long friend” that he should give him a position in town. However, the way that Howard cuts Willy off all the time and talks to him is the same way that Willy treats Linda. Like Tom (Great Gatsby), Willy seems to exert power on the people he CAN control and have power over, and he does this because it is done to him by others. More than caring about Willy, I care about his relationship with the boys because I think that being young they still have a chance to turn their lives around.
ReplyDeleteThe Lomans dream big, but don’t actually make a realistic plan to achieve their big dreams. This is what decreases my belief that the boys still have a chance to improve their lives; they are still taking advice about how to act in society and what to do in life by a failure, Willy, and just like this hurt them in their beginning careers it will hurt them now with their Loman Brother plan. Biff and Happy were raised to be aim high and be hopeful that things would work out because they had such great appearances and personalities, they were never taught to take advantage of their opportunities and learn and work for what they wanted. Because of this I think they are still childish, like Sam said.
Yes and no. Yes, because Willy is physically and mentally not able to carry out his job affectively anymore, and it would be dangerous for him to be on the road, so I do think that Howard made a good decision. Willy’s problems were driving too many people crazy; his family because he’s angry and stressed all the time and trying to ensure that things stay as they were in the old days and his boss because Willy is not actually useful anymore. No, because I recognize that it is not a positive thing in terms of Willy’s financial situation. Now I am not sure, how he will provide for his family, since knowing him he is probably not capable of going out to get another job. I feel for him in this sense, as a human being, that he has nothing to hold on to the past anymore (his glory days with his boys and when he was doing well in business) and seems like he is about to lose all hope. I also feel sympathy towards him because I know how much he cares about Biff and how much he wants his sons to forever be inspired by him, but we know that he is losing that too, in part because of his dishonesty.
1. I do care about Willy's fate. I can't help but feel sorry for him. He leaves the house with hopes for better times and comes back without a job. Willy has his faults, but that doesn't mean that he deserves everything that life has handed to him. Willy is a broken man. He has nothing to fall back on. Everything around him is falling apart. Willy can be mean and aggressive, but he never learned exactly what his life was about or where it should go. He never had help. He begged and pleaded for help but he was always shoved aside. The one time Willy almost stopped sales Linda talked him out of it. Willy does not know anything else, but is clear that selling was not the tight career choice for him. He is lonely and looking for camaraderie. Willy is pitiful. Nothing is working for him and it is hard not to feel a little bit sorry for him.
ReplyDelete2. The Loman brothers are living on a dream if they think that the Loman Brothers idea will be supported with lots of money. All they have in their favor is that supposedly Oliver really liked Biff. Like Amanda said, Biff and Happy are living a in a dream world just like Willy. The entire family believes that this will work. Happy and Biff think that they can waltz over to Bill Oliver's office and make a deal that will make millions. They are following in their father's footsteps, but not in a good way.
3. I don't think that Howard should have fired Willy. Willy put 34 years of his life into the company. He worked himself into exhaustion just to get by. They aren't even paying Willy a salary anymore. It doesn't cost the company to keep him on. Willy needs the money and Howard should recognize this. Howard is terrible. He calls Willy "kid' when Willy is at least thirty years older than him. Howard is showing his superiority over Willy. He is very harsh. Even though Willy was not the best salesman, he put every ounce of himself into his work. Howard could not ask for a harder worker. He was willing to work for forty dollars a week. Howard is just belittling Willy and he does not care. It is just business to Howard. He does not see the person behind the salesmen. Howard sees and treats WIlly like a fly that he is trying to shoo away.
1. Even though he is not a very nice person, I find myself still caring about Willy’s fate. Above all, Willy is a human. As a human, I believe that it he should receive some level of respect and that there is an implicit contract between people that states “Willy is not a piece of fruit”. It is likely pity that drives me to sympathize with Willy, but the people in his life (except Linda, kind of) have no empathy, an Howard in particular, is only concerned with business, completely ignoring Willy’s lifelong dedication to the firm and waves him off as a “kid”.
ReplyDelete2. Their view of the world is too simple (as taken from this scene). They believe that one thing leads to a definite end, which rarely ever happens in this world, or more specifically, in this country. They expect, and have been led to expect, success at every corner, but that only weighs them down even more. They think that a million dollars are just sitting there, waiting for them! All they have to do is take it! Throughout their childhood they stole what they wanted, whether it be a football or 6x10’s. They thought that everything was okay, because their father congratulated them about it. They never got past the fact that the real world doesn't allow for free money or get rich quick schemes, and will never succeed unless they overcome that fact.
3. From a business’s perspective, definitely. Willy is a useless asset; he can’t sell anymore, he complains (in my opinion rightly so but in Howard’s opinion… Howard really doesn't care), and he’s a pretty unlikable “walrus” (or shrimp). Business is bound to toss him away like a piece of fruit. Willy is the shell, and you can’t eat the shell. As much as I sympathize with his cause as a human, he is nothing more than a liability to the company. (Also, Willy’s lies about his “successful” sons might make it seem to Howard that Willy has somewhere to go, and so Howard doesn't feel as bad about laying Willy off)
1. While Willy may not be the nicest or best person around, I still feel sympathy for him and care about what will happen to him. He is human, just like me. While he has alienated me a little bit with his madness and cruelty (more than a little), when he goes to Howard, I find myself rooting for him and hoping that Howard will be kind to this old man. While I understand where Howard is coming from, not wanting Willy to represent the firm and all, I will feel like the way he put Willy off was a little bit mean.
ReplyDelete2. I feel like the Lomans’ world (well, at least Happy, Biff, and Willy’s world) is too simple, and too fantastical. Happy forms this ridiculous idea of going around and performing as a side-show, earning money. This idea is just so ridiculous and fool hardy that I can’t believe that Biff and Willy and even Linda buy into it. This idea shows that they are almost like kids, believing that just because they think it can work, it will work.
3. I feel like from the position he is in, he should have. He is the head of this company, and right now, Willy is in no shape to represent the company. Hell, he can’t even drive past Yonkers without imagining the flames of Hell in the trees. Willy has become broken and useless. He is extra baggage. He is unfit for work. On the other hand, Willy has put 34 years of hard work into the company. I feel that Howard has a kind of responsibility to help out this old acquaintance, if not with a job then with aid of some sort.
Willy is at this point just a spec on my radar. I will say, however, that his story is frightening. He did everything he was supposed to do. He followed all of the rules, but as we saw when Ben fought Biff, you can't play fair. Honestly, I care more about Biff and Happy's futures, than Willy's. I hope they have the strength to go against what their father did, or to at least try an alternative route, as opposed to trying to please a man who obviously didn't know the first thing about being successful.
ReplyDeleteThem good ol' Loman brothers are doomed. They haven't had the upbringing that allows them to think for themselves. They don't even have the drive to commit to a wife or in Biff's case, even a job. They lack consistency and independence, except they are dependent on a man who is even less stable than they are. Willy put them, and especially Biff, on a pedestal, and now he can't seem to buckle down and be humble enough to learn from other people.
Howard should have fired Willy a long time ago. It's not fair to Willy to let him grow old doing a job that he is not even good at. To have Willy as an employee for so long, and then to let him go at his time of need is cruel. However, it was a business move, and business is not fair. Willy should not be working, that much is clear, but Howard had a moral responsibility to take care of Willy after all of the tireless hours Willy worked with good intentions. This could be in the form on monetary compensation, or at least some recognition.
Besides the interest any reader must display in the protagonist of a novel or play to be interested in the work itself, I am slightly interested in what will happen to Willy. We already know that the play will end with his death, but it will be interesting to see what kind of death. It almost certainly will not be the velvet-slippered death that Willy describes to Howard, but ultimately his personal demise is interesting because Willy personifies all of our collective faults.
ReplyDeleteThe Lomans lost whatever notion of success they had back when Bernard was being anemic about studying for the Regents exams. The plan that Happy and Biff come up with is comically unfeasible, which makes Willy and Linda's reactions even more disappointing. It seems that even Willy cannot see past what he forces himself to believe about his family, but what he knows not to be true: his sons are not successful. At this point, the family is on its last legs.
Howard was certainly within his rights to fire Willy. He doesn't get along well with the buyers and is, frankly speaking, not an asset to the company anymore. Willy keeps making references to Howard's father during their conversation, although Howard is clearly blowing Willy off. Willy is desperate; and he knows it. He drops his initial pay proposal and appears nervous in front.of Howard, even though he is his his elder.
I definitely do still care about Willy’s fate. I think, much like cat was saying in class yesterday, that I’m a very sympathetic person. No matter how much I dislike someone or whatever their personal issues may be, I think I can always find the good in people. I realize that the world spoils the good in people and unfortunately good things rot sometimes. I do believe Willy had the right intentions all along, I mean he’s not lazy and still wants to keep working. Even when Willy or other people in real life are rude and annoying, I think they still deserve the dignity of a human being, simply because they are a person. Because if everyone were to shun anyone and everyone who ever messed up badly, no one would get better. It’s not to say that there aren’t people who rise high above a previous low status, but they do it with the help of someone who had hope in them. I think it’s important for people to know and feel that someone believes in them.
ReplyDeleteI think the Loman brother’s are aiming too high. I am completely skeptical about the entire idea and unfortunately, only something that false can make Willy proud or happy. I got so frustrated in the way that Willy just got no freakin clue on how to direct them for it. He contradicted himself terribly when talking to Biff about his interview. Then he tells him not to say he was doing farm work. Yes, Willy, pissed me off, but it’s not like everyone in the world can be wise like a buddhist. This idea just shows to me that they are a bit blinded. They still think like boys because they are trying to make it so easy for themselves. Just playing ball and not actually working. Even when or if they turned out successful, they would have done it by acting like boys. In a way, it makes me feel like they are somewhat dumb. But, ofcourse, now we know what they enjoy, or at least what makes Happy happy. Biff is a bit of a pushover in these last few scenes though.
Well, if Howard truly has nothing else for the man, then yes. But I definitely think it’s because of the representation he would give of the company. Yes, it’s superficial. And no, I don’t know which is best. Ideally speaking, Howard should not have fired him because this was basically Willy’s last chance to redeem himself. I completely understand why he would fire him though. And again, Willy does need the rest. It’s hard to say what there is left to do for Willy when he so badly needs both work and rest.
I think I will always sympathize with willy. Something about the way he is so desperate, like it reminds me of a puppy, so no matter what he does and how he acts I will always want the best for him and hope that he does well. So I will feel bad for him if he gets fired because i think he has grown on me as a character and that i would empathize with him.
ReplyDeleteThe Loman brothers want to much and have set such high expectations for themselves, so that in the end they can impress their fathers that they have basically set themselves up to fail. They are going to be constant failures and never be successful until they make realistic goals that they can actually achieve. I also think they are dysfunctional because they have so many idea bouncing around that they don't have nay set decision and are lost in their ideas.
Yes he should have. Willy is not bringing in what he should be bringing in. He is getting older and is obviously having more of a challenge being on the road. I think firing him would actually be kind because it would give him a chance to focus on himself and maybe do what he wants to do.
1.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure where I stand on my level of care towards Willy’s fate. He is a constant burden on the family, and he is most definitely not, “well-liked”. His treatment of poor Linda is absolutely horrid, as well as his treatment of his neighbor, Charlie. Let’s face it, if we ever met Willy, we would loathe the man.
2. This fantastical idea of Happy’s simply shows that they are dreamers, the underdogs always looking for a way to climb to the top. They cling to hope, just as Willy does, believing that it can all be better in some way or another. They have no understanding of success, but continue to yearn it.
3.
Willy is on a downward spiral, and everyone can see it: his wife, Howard, and even himself. He has been living on commission for awhile now, and hasn’t given Howard a real reason to keep him on. He’s become a true failure, in every sense of the word; Willy has been fired, one of his sons is a scumbag, the other a bum. I see no reason Howard kept him on this long, other than simple pity.
1. It's come to a point, for me, where Willy Loman's fate has become obvious and inevitable. He is on a downhill path, and I see no hope for him because of his outlook on and he lack of support from the people around him. I feel myself no longer caring about what happens to Willy because I feel like he's had his chance to make things better for himself and his family, and we're now seeing the point where a dead end is near.
ReplyDelete2. The main thing that makes the life of the Lomans so dysfunctional is their refusal to give up thier hope in the American Dream. They keep their hope in a stronger, happier future and this leads to them going to sad sad extremes to reach a goal no matter how impossible it may be. They expect too much from themselves and their future, leading to extreme disappointment.
3. I do think that he should have fired Willy because of the financial aspect of things. Willy does not produce the profit that makes him worth the investment of the company. Also, Willy is too tired to continue the way he is. I think this is a good way in forcing Willy to change his life so that he may change his future.
I sort of care. I feel bad for him but I dislike him quite a lot. So I suppose I do feel bad for him but I think he should fail.
ReplyDeleteThe Lowman brothers want a lot of things but they can't bring themselves to carry out those things. I think that they don't have the strength or conviction to go with what they want in their hearts. They want something and then put off reaching it because of stupid reasons.
Yes. I think he should fire Willy. Willy is no longer effective as a business man and, as a boss, I don't think he has the obligation to take care of Willy.
I am undecided if I care about Willy or if I don’t. I see and understand what he is going through and I sympathize a bit, but at the same time I am wondering why, if he has never been good at this salesperson business why he hasn’t tried to do something else. Charlie has offered him some jobs but Willy has refused. I can see why he keeps trying but if the was me I would have quit trying to sell and gone elsewhere. Willy is all broken and weak and he is starting to annoy me a bit with all his whining. It brings me back to my question, why keep doing something you don’t like and continue to suffer.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion these brothers just say a lot of things like their hopes and dreams but they never really act on it. Their dad has also set all these ideas in their head that are maybe too high for them to achieve. If they just go out and do what they want maybe then they will be happy and enjoy some part of their life. I think they should have tried to reach short term goals that were attainable like school for example. Then they would have and education and they could move on to the next step. But like Willy, they have followed America and its materialistic ideas thinking that was the right way.
Willy was not a successful salesperson so I can see why he was fired. But at the same time Howard should have given him a bit more time to see if Willy would finally fix himself. But I guess Howard became frustrated and tired of Willy and put his business before feelings and fired Willy. I would have like Howard to find Willy another thing to do maybe before firing him because this might lead Willy to feel completely useless and horrible.