Before we really jump into this 1971 novel by Harvard Law School Graduate John Jay Osborn Jr., take a look at this clip from the 1973 film version. This is the opening scene from the novel transposed almost verbatim, that is, word for word, from the book. John Houseman won the Oscar for his portrayal of Professor Kingsfield. Timothy Bottoms is Hart. And yes, people dressed this way and had hair like this in the early 70s, even at Harvard Law School.
Hart—no first name, just as the fellows in his study group have no first names, except for Kevin (why that might be we'll discuss)—hails from Minnesota, from Nick Carraway country. And like Nick, he has made his way east in in the name of opportunity, in this case, a law degree from the prestigious Harvard Law School. You might say to yourself, it better be really f@#$%!! prestigious to be treated the way he's treated by it, it specifically embodied by Kingsfield himself, who has been treating students like young Hart like this for thirty years. Indeed, by the time Susan asks Hart the question that leads the blog entry, we might be—or perhaps should be—asking the same question.
1. What's your reaction to the book so far? Like? Dislike? What scene or moment—other than the one above—sticks with you? Quote from the novel here. And everyone try to not pick the same scene, okay
2. The scene above sets the stage for what we'll see occur throughout the novel in the classroom. (This is a book about school where there actually is a lot of schooling in it for a change). What is your reaction to this particular scene in the book (and you can talk about the movie as well)? How would you like it if this was the way class was conducted here—in this class for example? Is Kingsfield within his rights as a teacher to put Hart on the spot the way he does? Does being the teacher give him the right to do this? By the way, this is "Socratic Method" that is still used at Harvard Law.
3. Finally. If you've been listening to the news the past couple weeks, there was a major cheating scandal at, strangely enough, Harvard. It's major. The captains of the basketball team have taken a leave of absence so that they wouldn't lose their eligibility if they stayed and were found guilty of cheating. Others have done the same. Some graduates could have their diplomas rescinded if they are found guilty of cheating. I thought about this when we were reading Gatsby. Gatsby is the cheater here, willing to do whatever he had to to get to the green light, an A in this case. Read this piece from a Harvard professor. Does it surprise you that there so many students would cheat? What is your response to what this article, what the writer, says about the rationale given for cheating? Is this applicable to Paideia?
I hope you enjoyed your class trips. Expect a quiz on Thursday. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think about our new book—which wasn't only a movie, but also a television series on both CBS (for a season) and Showtime (for three seasons). Who'd a thought a story about law school could last for four years on American television?
1. I really like this book so far, but I’m very confused and excited to see how the characters we’ve met so far weave into each other. What stood out to me the most was on page 24 and 25, after Hart walked this girl home and saw “on the third floor a green light went on”. The second I read that I thought of Gatsby and his green light and immediately wondered if this girl is going to end up being Hart’s Daisy. I can already see a correlation between the two books, with Hart’s new green world being Harvard Law School and Gatsby’s new green world being New York and Daisy and everything we’ve talked about in class.
ReplyDelete2. I didn’t really have any strong feelings about this scene in the book and I really liked the way the movie portrayed the scene out of the book. Personally, being put on the spot is never fun, but it really does help a student learn. Well, at least it’s helped me learn, because you feel so humiliated and embarrassed in that one moment, that you tend to remember to not do whatever caused you to be in the spotlight the first time. It also educates you to always be on your toes in class and pay attention, which is helpful to just retaining and remembering the information learned in class. I think that Kingsfield did have a right to put Hart on the spot in the way he does, though it is rather harsh, but really he does have a right. I don’t know if it’s because he’s a teacher, or because he’s a Harvard Law School professor, or if it’s the fact that he’s being doing this job for 30+ years.
3. It really doesn’t surprise me that some students at Harvard cheat. It’s a prestigious and ridiculously hard school to get into and I’m sure that studying there isn’t always sunshine and lollipops, so some students might cut corners or do certain things that are considered immoral to make their run at Harvard a little easier. I definitely appreciate the fact that the author doesn’t drop all the blame onto the students, though it is mostly if not completely their doing that they chose to cheat. I really like how he explains how the younger generations are being taught that the American Dream is to succeed, and it’s not easy, but it’s okay to cut corners to make it easier. Now cutting corners can be interpreted anyway you want but I think it’s crucial that he pointed out that the students have almost been raised into wanting to succeed without doing all the work.
1. I think the book has an odd potency to it. All of the characters seem very two sided and Hart's narration is really honest to me. Unlike Nick in The Great Gatsby, he seems to tell it how it is. I could be wrong, but so far his words ring true. I was really struck by the scene on the first page of chapter 5, when Hart describes Bell, "'I want property', Bell Said, the words lumbering out of him. Bell was big- he took up nearly the whole end of the table. The way he talked made words seem big too. He opened his mouth wide." This image really created a Tom sort of figure in my mind, the way he is massive and out of place in the group, and asserting himself over the others.
ReplyDelete2. This scene really describes what a true horror story for a student at college would be. To be called on in front of the entire class and not knowing the answer to the question. I have mixed feelings about if the professor can really put that much anguish on Hart, even after the second time, after knowing he hasn't read. Obviously he was supposed to have read for that day, and it was just blind misfortune that lead to him being called, so technically the teacher has the "right'. But that doesn't make it right. To me it seems quite cruel.
3. I think it's very sad that students with such a privilege to go to such an incredible school would cheat. At times it may seem that in order to do well and succeed in the class, they felt they had to, but it never helps, Many teachers say this, but its true, in that when you cheat you are only cheating yourself out of a real education. By cheating they are not absorbing the material as well as if they had studied it and grasped it. I think this is is great, just like Molly said, that the author doesn't just drop the blame on the students, and much of the time it could be pressure put on to succeed by stereotypes and family. I mean you are going to Harvard, there has to be an incredible amount of pressure to do well at a place like that.
I really am enjoying this book and its pacing. Wtih The Great Gatsby, we start reading directly as the action starts, with Nick meeting Daisy and Tom, and we didn’t get much information that told us who the characters were. In this book, I really like how we are meeting these characters at a time where they would not think anyone would be watching them and, in a way, meeting them at the most alone part of their day. With Professor Kingsfield, we meet him in his office as he is watching the students walk to class. We meet Hart as he is trying to find his way to class. Asheley is introduced as she walks home from a medieval history class. My favorite scene is when Hart and Ford are out drinking and Hart tells the story of his three roommates: “one was a genius, one was crazy and one was inconsequential and kept to himself.” And then Ford replies “It sounds like a fairy tale.” I just found this exchange to be a breath of fresh air for Hart who seems very neurotic and I feel like he need this break from the tension of being a new student with a lot of work on their shoulders.
ReplyDeleteI really liked this as an opening scene because it shows us what this professor and this school expects of their students, and in a way, what the book expects of the reader. The students, and the reader, need to be completely engaged or they’ll miss something. So I agree with Molly and I think Kingsfield does have the right to put people on the spot because this is Harvard Law School and to expect his students to perform in this way.
One thing the writer said in the article that stood out to me was when he was saying despite how “articulate, thoughtful, [and] even loveable” the students he studied were, they “have also found hollowness at the core.” Everyone feels pressure to do well, but some people will go to great lengths to make sure they do well, and they risk their achievements that they worked and deserved to have. It suprises me how many students were involved and, as I read in a different article on the cheating scandal, that they could have potentially worked together to cheat on the exam. It’s incredibly surprising that the pressure was so high that not one of the 125 students thought of the (highly likely) possibility of getting caught. And that situation is so extreme that I think the pressure to do well can cloud someone’s judgement to such a high extent.
I like the book and how it feels mysteriously serious and different from anything I have ever read. This moment really intrigued me, “The sight of Hart completely into his work, with one light on, made the boy feel reverent. It was a picture to put with the dark faces in gilt frames hanging in the classrooms in Langdell.” When I read it, I thought it strange that this new kid who, “absolutely refuses to ask anyone the way,” “[dislikes] not knowing where things are,” and feels completely out of place, looks like someone who belongs up on the wall with all the other recognized, successful men. I think it points out some kind of determination in him to be successful in his studies even though he is not like the genius.
ReplyDeleteAs a student I can’t say I would like this method displayed in the book, but I do not see how Kingsfield wouldn’t or shouldn’t have a right to act as he does. I think it does force one to make sure they are always caught up and on top of things in the course. This method is an exercise which forces students to of a solution or an argument quickly and defend it.
I am surprised that people who have worked hard to be admitted into an Ivy League school like Harvard would “cut corners” once there. I understand that everything these days is made into a competition and everyone seems to think that to be successful in life you have to win the competition or be at the top. However, it does not make sense to make the “elite” selected group and then rather than displaying talent, knowledge, and working hard towards fulfillment, cheat simply to have the letter, “A”.
1. In terms of narration, this book is very different from the Great Gatsby. So far, we have had three point of views, which I hope will give me more opinions and a wider palette with which to see the book, rather than the subjective interpretation of Nick. My favorite scene so far was when Hart went to the girl's apartment, pretty much gives away his intentions, and the girl says "I know you, the pervert" (She could be calling Hart the pervert), followed by an awkward conversation and drive. Also in this scene, we see Hart yearning to control the conversation, but he cannot. This might be parallel to a desire to drive his own life, though it may be too early in the book to say.
ReplyDelete2. The scene gives outlines the professor's demeanor right off the bat: he is conservative and strict, and has every right to be so in his 30 years of teaching. The pace of the classroom is all too familiar for him, and he no doubt expected the first years not to know what they are talking about. I think he is trying to weed out the weak ones early, so that he can expect the willing to not waste his time. Though it was unfortunate that Hart was singled out like that, no bad things came out of it (except for embarrassment), and if this had not had happened, Ford might not have also approached Hart (since there are 150 students, why else would Ford choose some random kid rather than one that he knows is just as new and willing as he is).
3. The students who have gotten into Harvard really have "watched their every step" to get in, and it is inevitable that some of those students find it necessary to cheat in order to not lose what they have worked so hard to gain. What was also interesting was the student's argument that they would fall behind if they didn't cheat since everybody else is already cheating. That mentality is likely the greater issue; the student believes that if their peers are cheating, and though it is still wrong to cheat, they justify that urge just a little bit and it seems like an okay thing to do.
1. I really like this book so far. I enjoy the writing style because it is feels much more modern than that of The Great Gatsby. I, like Jenny, enjoy all of the character descriptions that were in the first few chapters. It is very different from the Great Gatsby because we are learning much more background information about the characters in the first few chapters than in The Great Gatsby as a whole. My favorite moment is the scene where Hart walks the un-named girl home. The description of the area is so dark and foreboding. I thought it was really interesting that Osborn Jr. used a green light for the girls room. Hart "glanced up at her window as he passed, saw the green light turned around at the end of the street and headed back towards the apartment." This really reminded me of the green light we saw in the Great Gatsby. I look forward to seeing how this symbolism progresses!
ReplyDelete2. This scene scared the living hell out of me. I think it is every students worst nightmare. Although this is an uncomfortable scene, it is the perfect opening chapter because when I think of Harvard, I think of exactly this scene. Osborn Jr. does a great job at expressing how uncomfortable and scary this situation is. Although it is scary, I think that it is totally just for a teacher to do this because it is a great way to learn. In a way this is just forced class participation. I don't think Kingsfield is necessarily trying to embarrass anyone because it was the students job to do the reading and they should be prepared. Also, Kingsfield is showing an example of how to prepare or not prepare or he class through an actual example rather than talking about it.
3. For these students that have worked crazy hard in high school in order to get into their dream schools, it must be difficult to keep pushing once they are already there. Unfortunately, cheating seems to be the easy way out. I think its pretty sad that it is no longer about substance but about success. Why can't there just be both? I think that there is a huge pressure to do well and be successful and this pressure can become too much for students to handle so cheating becomes an alternate solution.
It's interesting to me, as I read these responses, to see how many of you approve of Kingsfield's treatment of Hart. Christine above calls it "every student's worst nightmare," yet it's "just" for the teacher to put the student on the spot on the first day of class. Kingsfield certainly is showing how he wants his students to be prepared for class, no doubt. But is fear the best way to do this? Perhaps it is. But everyone who writes from here on in, put yourself in Hart's shoes. Be Hart here and then answer the question. And no one yet has responded to the last question I posed. Is what happened at Harvard applicable to Paideia? Come on, guys, take a shot at the question. No one feels pressure enough here to cheat? The Paper Chase is about incredible pressure that success at Harvard Law puts on its students; a gut course at present day Harvard College led to over a hundred students possibly cheating since, as Alex pointed out, they felt like everyone else was. Does that pressure exist here? Does that pressure, from what you've seen, lead to cheating here?
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ReplyDelete1. I'm not really sure if I like this book yet...or the narrator. These chapters had a speed to them that I didn't feel or sense in The Great Gatsby. I love when Osbourne Jr. writes, "Hart took a reading on the sun, trying to remember from his Boy Scout days where it rose. He absolutely refused to ask anyone the way. He disliked being a first year student, disliked not knowing where things were. Most of all, he disliked feeling unorganized, and he was terribly unorganized in this first day of classes." Hart has issues with not being in control, and yet he is entering what is said to be the most prestigious of schools, and his fate is left up to a teacher that puts him on the spot and embarrasses him on the very first day of school, which is usually a purely introductory day and also what he was expecting.I'm interested to see how his fear of being unorganized plays out during his time at law school which I understand to be pure hell.
ReplyDelete2. As I student, I know that a teacher can conduct his class in whatever way he sees fit. But I also know that as I student I am terrified of being called upon when I don't know the answer. To go to such a prestigious school so that you can live a successful life is automatically intimidating, but adding on the pressure of being on your A game 24/7 seems like overload. I think Kingsfield is in his right, and this is possibly the only effective way to get them to work their asses off to succeed, but I don't know if I could suffer through that much intimidation.
3. Sadly, it doesn't surprise me that students are teaching. This situation could very easily be any other school of the country, even Paideia. It particularly doesn't surprise me that it's Harvard. There is such an enormous amount of pressure of students to be the best of the best. This pressure and intimidation affects us all in different ways. Some work so hard that school becomes all they have, where as some cut corners. I'm not sure which I feel is worse. This is absolutely applicable to Paideia. I wouldn't be surprised if cheating was a bigger part of Paideia than I realize it is. There's a competition that comes with going to Paideia that makes some people feel that it's absolutely necessary to cheat.
Amanda, thank you for really addressing the question I posed. Good for you. What you say about what it must be like at HLS in #2 I think must be very true. To be on your A game every day in a pressure cooker class like Kingsfield's has to be exhausting. And we already have seen how wound up these law students are in the convening of the study group: Bell who is insane about property, Anderson who has planned his studying schedule for the entire semester, and poor Kevin. Imagine if this was the school you were going to next year (or in two years, as the case may be)?
ReplyDelete1. I enjoyed reading this first few chapters. I like how different it is from The Great Gatsby, but how there are many similarities between them. I think the characters are very interesting and unique, especially Professor Kingsfield. It also feels more fast-paced than Gatsby. I found the first part before chapter one very interesting. "His professor called him down to the front of the class, up to the podium, gave the student a dime and said, 'Go call your mother, and tell her you'll never be a lawyer'", when I read this, I really hoped I would never have a teacher like him. I feel he is going to be a great part of the story.
ReplyDelete2. The first scene of the book and chapter one were pretty interesting in my opinion. Kingsfield is a very intimidating character and my first reaction was dislike toward this character. However, after I thought about it, the way Kingsfield intimidates the students makes sense. They are studying to become lawyers and they have to learn to not be intimidated easily. It may seem wrong that he is harsh with the students, but he students are adults now. Also, they have to learn to stand up to other people.
3. It is sad but I do not find this surprising specially at school that is very prestigious like Harvard. The students feel pressure and seek an easy way to reach 'success'. Even the brightest students find bumps along the road. To me a grade is worth the amount of effort you put in to it since it is your own effort. However, temptation is very hard to overcome especially when a person feels desperate. I believe that cheating is never okay but unfortunately it is often the last and most famous resort.
1. So far, I am not the biggest fan of this book, but I am interested to see where it's going. But right now the story line seems a little random to me, and I'm not quite sure where the story is going. I disagree with Jenny, because I don't like the pacing of the book. I think it's a little too slow. I want it to pick up the pace a little. I also think the style of writing seems a little bland and basic compared to Fitzgerald who had these vivid and colorful details. I really like the scene when Hart is telling the story of his college roommates. I thought it was humorous and very typical college-like, especially when the crazy roommate dumps the water on the double date and then pretends like he didn't do it. "So they (the two huge guys) knocked, and the crazy roommate came out dressed in his pajamas, saying why the hell couldn't he get any sleep around the dorm."
ReplyDelete2. This is kind of a bad reference and comparison, but this scene immediately reminded me of Legally Blonde, when it's her first day at Harvard Law and the professor puts her on the spot and degrades and condescends her. The use of this method on the first day makes the students beware. It makes the students stay on the toes and be prepared. Kingsfield definitely has the right to put Hart on the spot. It sucks to be put on the spot, but teachers all the time call you out or put the spot on you, even at Paideia, but the teachers aren't as condescending. I really like this scene, because it's a good introduction to the book and the character of Hart a little bit.
3. I really agree with Jenny. These students who have so much pressure on them from their family and themselves will do anything to be the best and succeed. They only care about the succession and not about how they get there. “Let us cut corners now and one day, when we have achieved fame and fortune, we’ll be good workers and set a good example.” I think it's understandable that these kids are so focused on the prize, because of all this pressure, but I don't think it excuses them to cheat. You can still be successful without cheating. It may just be easier to succeed if you cheat along the way.
1) I really like this book and I am quite surprised at how quickly I was sucked in to the story. The scene that stuck with me the most was probably the scene in which Hart tells Ford about his first three roommates. I loved the image in which “Hart’s words fall over him[Ford] like music, lulling him to sleep,”(10) because it evokes a strange feeling of both extreme intrigue in the beauty of what Hart is saying and a dissociation between the words and reality, kind of like a bridge between consciousness and unconsciousness or a fairy-tale. The story of the room mates was really interesting to be because I felt as if the genius was much like the crazy one, save for the fact that he was smart. He was someone that Hart could look up to or aspire to be although he was fairly weird and kind of crazy. When you step back and look at it, it was pretty weird that the genius attacked the crazy room mate simply because of missing soap.
ReplyDelete2) I was really intrigued to hear that my mom, who was in the room when I watched the movie clip, remembered the movie almost solely because of Kingsfield’s voice. She remembered the movie upon hearing the clip and said that she had a vivid flashback because of his commanding and somewhat scary voice. I would personally hate having a class like that, but I do think that anyone who chooses to take his class should be subject to the form of scrutiny that Kingsfield chooses. If it is too much the student could drop the class and if enough people found it to be an insurmountable problem the teacher would probably get fired fairly quickly and it would eventually balance out.
3) I found it fairly surprising I suppose just because Harvard seems so prestigious. I would think that any grade attained at Harvard would be satisfying enough to a student because it is both very hard to get into and the students must realize that the classes are designed to be hard. No one really gets strait A’s in college and I had thought that students usually tend to accept this either as they go in to college or a little bit before. I do think, though, that it is probably easier for a student to cheat when there are many others doing so simply because it may seem easier to justify. One may feel he has an unfair advantage if he does not cheat and rationalizes it as evening the playing field. I do not fully understand the question about whether or not it is applicable to Paideia but I will guess about the meaning of the question none the less. I think that it would probably be less likely for this sort of thing to happen at Paideia simply because the environment is much more comforting and nurturing. Although the style at Harvard, the Socratic Method of teaching, may be efficient in many cases I think that it instills more fear and paranoia in the students. I think that this style of teaching probably makes the kids more anxious, and therefor more desperate, to get a good grade.
1. I really like the book so far. I find it really engaging, how it constantly switches between characters, and that it is telling multiple stories at once. I think that the book is setting up for a very complicated opinion of Harvard Law. Chapter three about Ashley Grove stood out to me the most. Her marriage seemed dysfunctional and bizarre to me. Kevin appears to have no respect for Ashley, even though her family is paying for him: "'Jesus Christ, you made me mess up my notes. Do you want me to work or not?'". Him studying at Harvard Law is already hurting their relationship.
ReplyDelete2. I think that the scene in the movie is portrayed harsher than how I read it in the book. Kingsfield is undoubtedly tough, but he never reprimands Hart or tells him he is wrong. I feel bad for Hart here, but I don't think Kingsfield is acting out of line. I'm certainly glad that none of my classes are conducted like that, but Harvard Law is known for being that way. Like John said, the classes are still taught this way. If you sign up to go to Harvard Law, you are also signing up for the stress, embarrassment, and competition.
3. The cheating scandal at Harvard doesn't surprise me at all. It seems like cheating has been at a high at many colleges and high schools, not just Harvard. I was most interested by what the writer said about "the ends justify the means". Students seem to be more focused on the grade than what they actually learned. It makes sense, because of all the competition for success, but it is still sad. It wouldn't surprise me if something like this happened at Paideia. Even though the school puts a lot of emphasis on learning itself, it is still a very competitive prep school. I haven't heard about any large scale cheating here, but I do see the pressure that could cause it.
1. I’m enjoying the book so far. I’ve always heard that law school is pretty awful; it’ll be interesting to see how accurate that is through the eyes of someone going to one of the best schools in the country. The very first scene stuck with me. One usually doesn’t see anything from the mean old professor’s point of view. This type of antagonist (if he actually is an antagonist) isn’t usually even portrayed as human. He’s usually just the hard-ass who acts unjustly towards the main character all movie/book long until graduation day when the main character’s heartwarming commencement speech manages to, incredibly, draw a smile and a wink while the whole class cheers, and we know that everything is going to end up OK, and the old man and the main character look each other in the eye while an upbeat 80’s song starts to play. This book starts with, “Professor Kingsfield, who should have been reviewing the cases he would offer his first class of the year…” The first time we see him, he’s basically slacking off from his work; he’s choosing instead to watch all of the students walk to class. He’s also panting from doing his little morning exercise. We know from the short, italicized prologue that he’ll act differently in class, but it’s interesting to see this side of him.
ReplyDelete2. That scene is something that everybody has worried about at one point or another. No one wants to be called out in front of the class. I definitely wouldn’t choose to have class that way. Maybe it helps motivate the kids, but I would think that getting good grades would be motivation enough at that level. He definitely has the right to do that. As a teacher, he can conduct his class however he wants short of abusing the students. That being said, the students have just as much of a right to talk badly about him behind his back.
3. No, it doesn’t surprise me that all of those students would cheat. I don’t think there’s anybody out there who hasn’t cheated or cut corners a few times in their lives. If someone isn’t cheating it’s either because they feel they can succeed without it, there’s too much of a risk of getting caught, or they don’t have the resources to cheat. On the other hand, there are an infinite number of reasons to cheat. I think this is applicable to any sort of institution that exists. I’m a pretty bad liar and I’m generally pretty nervous, so I’ve kept it to a minimum, but if someone has that particular talent, good for them. If they’re stupid about it eventually it’ll blow up and/or they’ll be put into a situation they can’t actually handle because of lies they’ve told. If they’re smart about it, they succeed and no one really cares how they got there. In a situation that could determine someone’s future, I can’t really see the “It’s morally wrong” argument dissuading anyone from cheating.
1. I thoroughly enjoy the style and flow of The Paper Chase. Mr. Hart is a character that everyone can easily relate with. I get this sense of nervousness and just a feeling of being overwhelmed from him that i clearly understand. This feeling hit hard when Hart was wandering aimlessly in the last chapter, "He had no idea where he was going and after five minutes, no idea where he was except for a vague feeling that the law school was somewhere off to his right." I think this stuck me because everyone is overwhelmed at one point in there lives and dealing with it in the right way is the key to having a happy life.
ReplyDelete2. I think it is very much acceptable. If the assignments were posted and other members of the class came prepared but you came to class empty handed you should feel the shame of missing a question. I think this method works well in classrooms. If you know you might be called on you would have to work hard outside the classroom so as not to be embarrassed in front of your teacher and peers. I think its an effective was for the teacher to see who has done the work and who slacked off on an assignment.
3. I would think it passes through every students head that there is someone doing better than me. This doesn't surprise me at all. That drive to be better through any means is powerful for sure. The higher the stakes such as in Harvard or yes, even Paideia, the higher the risk for cheating. The struggle is how to prevent it. The scary thing to think about is the limit one would go to get a 100 where they needed it most.
1. I am very intrigued by the novel thus far. I find the variety of personas and characters quite appealing. I love the seemingly simple prose and vignette style juxtaposed to the elaborate language. I enjoy Osborn's writing and I am interested in seeing how the story unfolds. The part of the story that stuck out to me was when Hart was wondering around Cambridge and came across the young woman. We get the sense that he is a very lonely person. He writes home to his family and girl, he interacts with ford and the others in his study group, yet all of that seems very distant. He Does not put off any real emotion towards any of it, school, friendships or family. This, however, changes when he happens across the girl. He is immediately taken by her. When he leaves her apartment, Osborn says, "now he could taste the night. It was his friend, slowly uncovering Cambridge, showing him special little things as he walked". We finally see true emotion from Hart. Something about this girl brings out that side of Hart. He transforms from the apathetic student to the doting man. He returns to her hose the next day and wants to open up to her. She makes him feel comfortable. Though he goes about it in a slightly creepy way (he stalks her...) something draws him to her, and she is clearly curious about him as well. I look forward to reading more about their relationship and seeing how in unfolds.
ReplyDelete2. I think Kingsfield's actions are completely justifiable. While I would detest if any teacher did this to me or a peer, I understand where he is coming from. Osborn made it clear in the first chapter that Kingsfield is a sucker for tradition. The Socratic method has very deep roots in Harvard and, seeing as it is the top institution in America, it clearly yields good results. Kingsfield, I believe, is showing his students the harsh reality of the world. If you learn to deal with pressure and being put on the spot in law school, you will have no problem when something similar happens in real life. He may be harsh but I think it is his way of caring for the futures of his students.
3. It does not surprise me at all that this would happen. It has probably been happening for quite some time, people have just been smart enough not to get caught. When people are put in high pressure situations (such as attending Harvard), the uglier side of them comes to the surface. HArvard is a community that fosters competition and perfection. I do not condone the cheating at all, yet I see why people would feel pushed to extreme measures. People's desire to not just survive, but thrive, pushes them to do all sorts of things. I think that Paideia is definitely not as harsh as HArvard, but it still encourages succes and high standards. People at Paideia are motivated by themselves, family, teachers and/or peers to succeed in my different aspects. Paideia looks for the well rounded student. A family member of mine once said "Is there anyone at Paideia who isn't exceptional?" This attitude, while exciting and refreshing, is harmful. If everyone is expected to be good at everything, everyone will do what they can to fulfill this image. I do not believe Paideia kids would do anything this drastic yet the pressures on students at Harvard are very similar to those on Paideia students. I despise that students feel like they have to do whatever necessary to succeed, yet I do not see how anything could change the attitude.
1. I like this book so far because I think that the characters and the scenarios are much more realistic. The scene that really jumped to me was the scene where Hart was called on and the emotions he experienced: "...heard his name, he froze. Caught unprepared, he simply stopped functioning. Then he felt is heart beat faster than he could ever remember its beating and his palms and arms break out in sweat (6)". This jumped it to me because my sister gave me basically the same description when she was in her first few weeks of law school and I think it goes to show that Osborn is really drawing from personal experience and he isn't sugar coating anything about his classroom experiences.
ReplyDelete2. As I said above, its very striking how a teacher asking a simple question can create such an emotional, mental and physical reaction out of a student. I also found it interesting because Kingsfield was stressing out before class because he couldn't figure out how to get in the building and then he walks in and completely changes and gains power and comfort in his room. I wouldn't like to have that method at school because I think it instills too much fear in the students and makes for a slightly hostile and nervous environment. I think people would be too focused on memorizing facts than actually focus on being engaged and absorbing information and learning. I think Kingsfield believes that because he is in his natural element, he can do as he pleases and he can do whatever he wants to his students (like the little blurb before chapter 1 when he gives the boy a dime to call his mom to take him home) but I'm not sure if it's right.
3. It doesn't surprise me at all because Harvard does have a reputation of success and I think that when students are constantly striving to reach that goal, they often forget about what's ethical and what the right thing to do is. I think that success is such a huge part of our society and there's the idea that you have to be successful, there's no alternative. When you have generations learning that at younger and younger ages, you create a world were people will stop at nothing to get success and if that means cheating, cutting corners, plagiarizing, whatever then to them, it's worth it because there's a promise of a big pay off at the end. I think its very visible at Paideia because people at school do get very competitive with each other and especially every year when you see where the seniors are going off to college, everyones always wondering who the Harvard kid is going to be. Everyone wants to succeed and achieve but I think that the ways that we're trying to gain that aren't the right ways.
ReplyDelete1) This book has compelled me so far in both its style and its content. The short, descriptive chapters keep me interested and the distinctness in each character makes each page lively. In the first six chapters, the book has demystified Harvard and given us insight into the daily life of one of its students. Although we don’t know a lot about the characters, the first six chapters set up a foundation for a great story.
2) I found this scene, both in the book and move, to be very exposing. Kingsfield seems like a human form of Harvard. Intimidating, intellectual, and prestigious, he is a perfect character to introduce us to Harvard. I think it’s within his right to call on Hart the way he did, although it isn’t the most welcoming of ways to begin an academic year. Kingsfield was trying to set the tone for the seriousness he wants his students to maintain in his class.
3) It doesn’t surprise me that so many kids would cheat, however I don’t think that they are justified by their thirst for success. At an elite college such as Harvard, where stakes are so high, students are willing to do whatever it takes to reach the success that they’ve worked so hard to achieve. If they feel cheating is the only option to reaching the success, they will bend their own integrity and take the risk. I don’t feel that this is applicable at Paideia, however, because of the welcoming environment that students are surrounded with and the constant support from peers and teachers. Cheaters are often lost and helpless, and I believe Paideia does all that it can to keep students from feeling those two emotions.
1) I don't think I'm liking the book a lot but not hating it, just got a bit bored because there was so much description and little action. What stood out the most to me was the writing in italics when the narrator talks about suicide and how, "Behind every good college are a hundred boys who killed themselves." It's scary to think how this could be remotely true. So many people over drive themselves in college and only get stress and lack of healthy human relationships from spending their life studying. I'm not sure what the italics mean, but it's what makes it interesting for me. As well as not having many first names said.
ReplyDelete2)In comparison to how John Capute teaches, Professor Kingfield is good enough to make anyone cry. I think he's fine because he introduces a very well disciplined maner of presenting and executing important facts. Perhaps this is how an already good lawyer turns into a firm and strong lawyer. Yes, it was quite harsh, but in the end Hart and his classmates learn from what happened in that scene. They learn right away, one should never assume and always be prepared with any reasonable intelligent response.
3)In the article, I realize the author is making the asme argument I'm making for my paper for Gatsby. IIt seems like a sort of vicious cycle in which no one wants to fully give in and be guilty or show the guilty. Everyone tries to excuse each other because they know at one point that have cheated. And he argues that people are not learning the lesson all the way. I don't think this really applies to Paideia. I mean people cheat but that I personally know of, it's only a handful of people. Unfortunately, it's true, it's hard to tell on someone when they are or you think they're cheating because it's hard to prove. When it comes to lies, it's hard to know what true.
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ReplyDeleteSo far I'm rather impartial towards the book and our cast of characters. I find some of the situations rather odd, such as the scene where Hart visits the girl he walked home, one of the reasons being that her name is not revealed to us. I feel that one quote really does sum up the novel, and what we will see as we continue to read, and that is, "Like my study group friend, and unlike hart, I saw where Harvard Law School was taking me. Unless I did something to change direction, I was going to end up with a cushy job in a big firm on Wall Street." This is what our author sees as the end result to the tremendous amount of work and stress presented to him during law school.
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In this book, the teacher is obviously quite harsh and demanding, testing students by drawing them into the spotlight, forcing them to think fast and come to quick conclusions. Kingsfield's classroom is his small country in which he is the supreme dictator, giving little to no respect to the sensibilities of the students. I would not enjoy a class taught this way. As a teacher, it is Kingsfield's right to teach the way he sees fit, and considering his long legacy at Harvard it must produce results. But while it is his right, is it necessarily the best way to teach? The Socratic method is a fine method of teaching, but what Kingsfield is doing does not seem correct.
3. Finally. If you've been listening to the news the past couple weeks, there was a major cheating scandal at, strangely enough, Harvard. It's major. The captains of the basketball team have taken a leave of absence so that they wouldn't lose their eligibility if they stayed and were found guilty of cheating. Others have done the same. Some graduates could have their diplomas rescinded if they are found guilty of cheating. I thought about this when we were reading Gatsby. Gatsby is the cheater here, willing to do whatever he had to to get to the green light, an A in this case. Read this piece from a Harvard professor. Does it surprise you that there so many students would cheat? What is your response to what this article, what the writer, says about the rationale given for cheating? Is this applicable to Paideia?
As Gatsby resorted to any means necessary to meet his own demands, so these students resorted to cheating to meet both their own and those of others. It surprises me in the sheer number of students. I believe that such pressure and stress on perfection leads to resorting to means such as this. I remember a conversation I had with a teacher concering the difference between education in the United States and that of education abroad, specifically Europe. Elsewhere, one is not expected to succeed in all aspects, for no one is perfect, but here for one to succeed one must excel not only in math and the sciences, but in literature and the other arts. Such stress on perfection is unhealthy, in my opinion.
So far from what we've read, I really like this book. I have never been to college, and I sure as heck have never been to Harvard Law school, but it seems to capture the students perfectly. It portrays Hart is a young man who has worked his butt off, a man who wants to succeed and get a great job and have a good life. And yet, there are still aspects and characteristics, scenes of Hart where we see him as a boy as opposed to a young man seeking his future. The scene above is a perfect example of this, but the one I had in mind is his young, spontaneous attraction to the woman he walks home. It is a youthful thing to do, to just show up at some girl's house whom you have never met. And More youthful still to try to sleep with her, which Hart admits to doing. "'If we hadn't gone out for a drive, I would have tried to sleep with you." The book does a great job of capturing these kids, as they are still kids in my opinion, who are trying to make this transition into responsible adults.
ReplyDeleteThis scene in the classroom didn't really surprise me. When I think about a college class that's exactly how I picture it. More is expected of the students, and I think that it's an effective way to keep them focused. Kingsfield most definitely has a right to do this to Hart. I view it as a wake up call from Kingsfield to Hart, almost as if he's saying, "this is the way life is from now on, welcome to Harvard Law and you better be prepared". I see it as Kingsfield doing him a favor by teaching him a lesson he needs to learn. Having said that, it is a really scary way to have a class, especially a class with so many people in it. I would hate to have classes like that, even if it is helping me stay focused.
If it was any other university besides Harvard, I would say that it is surprising that so many students would cheat. But, honestly it does not surprise me that Harvard students would. I think students that have gone to Harvard or go to Harvard for the most part have had to work extremely hard to get there and to stay there and do well. There is a huge emphasis on success, and students who push themselves all the way to Harvard do not want to stop there, they want to go out into the world and be successful as that's the main goal. I don't see it as being unrealistic to say that they would go as far as cheating to achieve that goal of being successful one day. I think the article is absolutely correct in saying that the idea of cutting corners has been justified by society, especially regarding universities and their students and professors. I think that in a way this applies to Paideia. I think it applies in that students have always been taught that they are supposed to and will succeed, and for the most part everyone cares about their grades and success in school more than anything else. The idea that I will go to a great college and succeed has been driven into my mind at least, and I let that drive my actions academically. Now I wouldn't say I would go to the extent of cheating in order to get good grades, but it is one of the most important things to me that I do succeed and get into a good school.
1.So far, I do not like this book. It's hard going from Gatsby to this because the writing style is so different. I also think that the characters so far seem weak and immature. The scene that stuck with me was when they went to talk with Toombs, the head of the dorm. I thought it was foreshadowing to the question of why you would go to law school in the first place. "'You think I'm kidding? You think I'd joke about grades? You try getting a job if don't have them. Either you've got to look right, or you've got to have the grades." This also brings up the topic of how there is a specific image that goes with being a lawyer. It has already been mentioned several times.
ReplyDelete2. Yes, I think that the teacher had every right to put pathetic little Hart on the spot. Why was Hart so afraid? It annoyed me. Like John said, the Socratic Method makes you think and figure out the answers yourself. This scene just displayed Hart's big weakness: speaking with a clear mind. Overall, the teacher was in the right while Hart is just a nervous wreck.
3. I feel bad for the professor that wrote this article. He obviously loves and admire students, and he expects them to rise to his expectations. I think that the students feel the same way-- they wan t to prove to themselves and to their teachers that they can succeed. The sketchy part is what counts as success. Is success helping people or is it getting filthy rich? A main theme of the professor's writing was how the students think that the ends justify the means. If you get a good job and do well, then who cares about how you got there? This is very similar to Gatsby. I think that this is very applicable to Paideia. I am on Honor Council, and in the past couple of years we have seen several cases of cheating. The students that come in front of us are not bad at school-- they just broke under pressure. That is a very common theme. Having that overwhelming weight of grades can make the most honest person take a few shortcuts. Honestly, more people get away with cheating then one might realize, but in the end, you're only cheating yourself, your school, and your peers. It's a shame that people don't realize that sooner.
1. I don't really have strong feelings, good or bad, for this book yet. I don't feel drawn to one particular character as the one that I like most, although there hasn't been much time for character development. The passage that stuck with me was when Hart told the story of the student who said "You're a son of a bitch, Kingsfield." It was the first and, to me, the only interesting scene that we've read so far. . I think that Kingsfield will be my favorite character in the novel.
ReplyDelete2. I like scenes like this that are set in classrooms, because I feel like everyone has no trouble being able to identify with with Hart in his situation. I think Kingsfield is well within his rights to act how he does in his class, its his room and students have to play by his rules. Plus, if I were in a harvard law class then I would expect it to be a pretty hostile and competitive environment. I think that there is a method to Kingsfield's madness, as he has been teaching for three decades.
3. I think the rationale proposed by the author is a very valid one. If you put all the most competitive people together and tell them they have to try to be the best, then of course someone is going to cut corners. Maybe they will even cut corners preemptively, assuming that if they don't then someone else will. I think it is applicable to Paideia because it is applicable to any level of education in America. Our society teaches us that success is the most important thing, even more so than morality. I also really liked the point the author made about the "ends justify the means" mentality that students have. I think we all have had those thoughts before. Its easy to say that I can get ahead now, and then straighten up when things are more stable in the future.
I like the book so far. I really like the simplistic writing. The one thing I do not like that much is the way the the book jumps around with no notice and how there are already so many characters and the story lines are getting confusing. However once I figure out all of the different things that are going on and the story lines I am trying to follow I think I will really enjoy this book.
ReplyDeletemy favorite line so far is, not as much like I like it, more that i find it interesting, "Behind every good college are a hundred boys who killed themselves." I think this line is really depressing but at the same time makes me thing about the people we are reading about and their lives. What will become of them and who in this story will have this unfortunate ending.
I think Kingsfield had every right in his classroom to call out Hart. He should have been prepared for his first class and Kingsfield had every right to think he would be prepared. If class was conducted here like this it would scare the shit out of me, and I think I would be nervous stepping into class every morning, but it would ensure people did there work, no one wants to be made a fool of. I like these scenes and I am excited to read more of them because I am interested to see how Hart will step up in class.
I am not surprised by the amount of kids who would cheat, it is taught at a young age to do whatever you can to win, and to succeed and for some that means cheating. When one ispaying that much money to get a degree, and because of one test they are not going to pass, or they are not going to get their degree I would almost expect people to cheat.
I do not think this is applicable to Paideia because our success in a class or in this school is not dependent on one test. I think this school is fair when it comes to tests and chances to do well. I think it is sad that people will jeopardize there lively hood, however either way there is a chance they will fail and not be able to graduate. It is sad that as a society we put more importance on succeeding then trying your best. Harvard is just the tip of the iceberg people have been trying to cheat and get ahead for years, whether it is in sports or in school, people will do whatever it takes to WIN.
1. So far I actually really enjoy this book. The way it's written and the characters have a good amount of depth to them already (reminiscent of the first chapter of Gatsby). I think the scene with Toombs stuck out to me the most. The idea that the way you look matters equally as much as your credentials is an extremely interesting point. Toombs also makes a point of showing a financial side to the beginning of the novel. Toombs needs a job rather than wants one. As we discussed in class, financially (and in other ways), Harvard is a demanding place. The fact that at least one of the characters in the novel is struggling financially is an accurate addition to the novel.
ReplyDelete2. Honestly I would dislike such a ridiculously negative teacher, but if he treated us in such a way in order to prepare us for the real world I couldn't complain. I'm in class to learn, and it's in general up to the teacher how to teach. However, I do think it is all based on his intentions. If Kingsfield is a crotchety old man who harasses his students without reason then it is absolutely unacceptable, but if he uses this behavior to teach his students a lesson about how life will be after law school I would say it is acceptable
3. Honestly, not that surprising to hear about cheating in any schooling environment, whether or not is is at Harvard. While I see both sides of the situation, cheating is bad on one side and I need good grades on the other cheating scandals are rarely shocking. This is actually less surprising than it would be at Paideia because individual tests mean much less to high school students than to law school students.
1. My favorite scene so far was when, while discussing his past roommates, Hart mentions a former roommate who was "crazy". He had broken down and at one point began crying in front of Hart due to his lack of friends. It surmises all of my feelings about Harvard Law School. It is basically an agreement to waste three years of your life in agony so that you can go off and have a nice job in New York.
ReplyDelete2. I don't agree with the teachings of Kingsfield. His job is to teach students, and I don't think that shame, fear, and humiliation are a good way of doing that. You could argue that in the long run he is preparing these students for the hardships they will face, but that just doesn't seem like Kingsfield's motive. To me, it seems like he couldn't give less of a shit whether or not his students turn out to be succesful. I think that surviving Kingsfield's class is equal parts right of passage and learning. Not only are the students constantly studying, but they are also being hazed by their professor.
3. In a society where grades are the most important aspect of the student, it is not very far fetched to say that the students would go so far as to cheat in the pursuit of achieving better scores. What I am surprised at is the lack of honor. Even though grades are very important to Harvard students, I didn't think that having a reputation as being scholarly or trustworthy came far behind. Of course, at a school like Paideia where there is a balance between the development of the individual and the student, this would be less common. Personal integrity is just more valued.