"'Do you think anyone cares about the robots? The law school hates the guys who regulate their studying habits. The law school gets them without trying. The law school wants you: the earnest ones. You've got class. The law school wants to suck out your Midwestern class. You can't flunk. That's why I'm worried about you'" (115).
This is Susan, of course—ironically perhaps, being the youngest of the young people who inhabit the novel, and being a woman in a world that is predominately male—being the voice of wisdom, knowledge, and experience. Like the law school, she finds his earnestness irresistible. Unlike the law school, she actually worries about him.
I imagine some of you may be pulling a Hart tonight (minus the instant coffee and warm tap water—you'll soon get the allusion). Perhaps some of you are Andersons in disguise, organized to a tee. Either way, do the best you can with the paper due tomorrow. Please look at the MLA rules I handed out earlier in the week. I'm expecting the periods to be in the right place on quotes. Quotes of more than four lines, block. Two or more people talking, do block dialogue. Page citations are just the page number, that's it. No (pg. 45), but simply (45). It's not hard.
Knowing the paper is your larger priority, I'll keep the questions here direct.
1. Why Hart as the protagonist? We know, he has "heart"; we know he is sensitive in a way that his classmates aren't (a perfect moment to show this: Chapter 22, when Hart is gushing about Kingsfield to Ford, other students are tromping in their wet, dirty shoes all over Ford's notes that have fallen out of his notebook). But Hart as protagonist is more than that. So why might Osborn made him our main character as opposed to the others in the group—or even Susan or her father? What's at stake for Hart in this war, as some of you have called it, called law school?
2. Your reactions to the interpretation I gave of Chapter 24 on Friday? I know some of you didn't buy it—I know some of you at least considered it. If the interpretation works for you, how so? If not, why not?
That's it. Good luck: remember to proofread and spell check, something I'm not always so good at, as Nick pointed out to me last week when I gave you the quoting guide. See you tomorrow where we'll start talking about Hart specifically.
1. I think that Osborn picked Hart as the main character because he's the only one who doesn't have such a negative outlook on school. He really enjoys school and learning and everyone else seems to hate it. Ford says that he "gets enough of Kingsfield in class" (79)and he gets really aggravated when Hart starts gushing about Kingsfield. Nothing in school ever really seems to stress Hart out too much or really get him down. The school doesn't affect him as much as it affects someone like Kevin. He works hard, he does his best and it works out alright for him in the end. His positive outlook on the school is exactly, as Susan said, what the school wants to suck out of him. What's at stake is maintaining that positive outlook and that upbeat personality. Hart wants to end up on the other side the exact same person that he is now, but as a lawyer too. He believes that the process wont change him and that if Kingsfield could get through it just fine then so can he. His sanity and his mental organization of keeping law school and his 'social life' is what keeps him from losing it and becoming another HLS zombie, something that Kevin is on the path of becoming.
ReplyDelete2. The interpretation of chapter 24 does not work for me at all because of the physical responses that the girl has and the whole situation in general. Yes, they are drunk and yes the other girls are cheering the other guy on but I think in that moment, the girl who was being held down sobered up immediately and knew exactly what was going on. For me, no part of that chapter made it seem like the girl was enjoying any part of it, to me it sounded like she was just a toy and things ended up getting out of hand really quickly.
1. Hart is the protagonist because he is the most susceptible to change. Like Susan says, Hart is different from the other kids at the school. He still has his "Midwestern class", or in other words his innocence. Ford mocks Kevin in class when he doesn't know the answer. Ford is one of the many students who enjoys the competition, and part of the competition is seeing the other students fail. Hart does not feel this way, but if he lets law school get to him too much he will. On the other hand if he listens to Susan he can be completely released from his law school mindset.
ReplyDelete2. Although at first I vehemently disagreed with the interpretation of ch.24, after more explanation I started to understand. I think the biggest connection is power. Any kind of assault like depicted in this scene is about power. The pot-belly law student has to feel power over this girl, just as Kingsfield does with his students. The assault scene is much more disturbing to read, but it is essentially the emotions in Kingsfield's class amplified. Kingsfield asserts himself above his students, and he makes them fear him.
!. Hart is the protagonist because like you said, he has "heart". He cares in a world of apathy and abrasive personalities. He is surrounded by intense, single-track-minded people whose sole goal is success. They are very 2 dimensional. They have personalities, however there is only one sie of their personalities. Kevin is the coward, Susan is the cynic, Kingsfield is the harsh professor etc. Hart is the only character who has more than 2 dimensions, he cares, he is motivated, he can be cowardly, yet he can also be cynical. He gives us a varied view of Harvard Law School and that is why he is our protagonist.
ReplyDelete2. I agree with Zoe, this awful, brutal scene is a sign of power. I completely understand the connection. As you said in class, the act of rape is not about sex, it's about power. These young men feel no power in their every day lives. They are put down by their professors so they have to put down others. Their professors dominate them in class rooms, make them feel violated and inferior. They take this feeling and project it onto others. The male-centered system of Harvard Law School justifies, in the minds of the young men, the belief that they can do what they want. They can do as their professors do and get no credit.
1. I agree with Zoe in that I think having Hart, someone who has already changed over the course of a dozen chapters, as a protagonist is beneficial because it shows what this Harvard Law world can do to a genuine person like Hart. We met Hart and he bright eyed and, as Susan says, different from the other law students. But as novel goes on, he becomes more and more hungry for validation and power and superiority that he loses sight of who he actually is. Having Hart as the protagonist helps us get a better grip on the negative side of Harvard Law School and the negative side of prestige.
ReplyDelete2. I think when you simplify both of the situations, they are the exact same dynamics at work. It’s someone in a more powerful position lording their power over someone else who put themselves in that position. While the woman was certainly not asking to be sexual assaulted, she did go to this fray boy’s house at her own accord and submitted herself to his reign of power, just as the law students submit themselves to Kingsfield’s teachings. In both of these cases, the less powerful people are putting themselves in these uncomfortable and intense situations at their own free will. When we talked about whether or not Kingsfield’s way of teaching was fair or just, we said it was fine for him to be tough and humiliate his students because they put themselves there. In the situation at the house, it’s the same thing. The young woman was there because, initially, she wanted to be. She definitely didn’t expect to be taken advantage or assaulted the was she was, but the students also didn’t expect to to be verbally assaulted the way they were. While these two different scenarios are so different and one is horrifying and completely wrong, I don’t think its a stretch to say that they are similar. I think what Osborn might be trying to say how someone having this amount of power can go horribly wrong in a single second. All these law students are looking for power in their profession, and I think this comparison questions whether or not power and superiority should be as valued as it is in this law school world.
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ReplyDeleteDeletion: I wasn't done writing.
ReplyDelete1. Hart does not have his life under control, whereas the other characters in the book know their place and their purpose in life, with the exception of Kevin. Hart is a boy in turmoil, and the book sets him as the protagonist to illustrate his progress into having a purpose and direction in his life, resulting in the transformation of a boy into a man. Influence from Hart's peers shape him into a person with depth, and his originally unaffected demeanor begins to take shape, allowing him new opinions, and letting others have their own subjective opinions of Hart. Hart risks taking the easy, evil path of cheating in his war. He breaks into the treasure room to find the red set, expecting clues to Kingsfield's thought process, so that he may have an answer key rather than working hard and abstracting questions for an answer. There is no shortcut to hard work, and Hart is in danger of giving in to the sin of sloth and attempting a shortcut.
2. I disagreed with your interpretation at first, but gradually understood, though still do not agree with, the interpretation. Personally, I think that many of the discussions that we have had are wild inferences and a product of over analyzing certain brutal scenes. To me this scene was meant to show the type of people that Kevin in now working among; a big bunch of brutes. They aren't dumb, but they are savage. Kevin is neither dumb nor savage, but this scene was to invoke his fear of becoming such a person, and drive him deeper into his hole. I can see where the interpretation of power comes from, but still do not agree with it.
Jenny asks one of the fundamental questions, I think, of the novel. "All of these law students are looking for power in their profession, and I think this comparison questions whether or not power and superiority should be valued as it is in this law school world." As the rest of you come to the blog, think about Jenny's question and give a shot—a quick shot—at addressing it as part of your whole entry.
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ReplyDelete1. I definitely agree with both Zoe and Jenny about Hart. He has changed so much over the course of the book already and it’s really helpful to understand how law school changes someone so drastically, from a student ready to learn to be a lawyer, to a crazed student who’s obsessed with his teacher and constantly looking for recognition and power over the rest of the students. To me, Hart was a piece of clay at the beginning of law school, he didn’t have any major defining qualities or passions to make him any different from any average law student, and now, he’s very passionate about almost “winning” law school, as if it’s a very serious game in which there are only a few winners, he’s determined to be one of them.
2. The end of Chapter 24 made me physically sick. I can understand your interpretation and it makes complete sense to me about how Kingsfield in some way, is attempting to flex such forceful power over his students, but the analogy is just something I can’t wrap my head around. I agree with Zoe that the scene, while incredibly disturbing, is, at its core, the emotions from Kingsfield’s class to an extreme. I don’t think that the girl enjoyed at all or that any part of it was pleasing to her, once it got out of hand, unlike Hart, who seems to get some sort of sick pleasure out of practically killing himself to please Kingsfield. I also definitely agree with Jenny about how there is some sort of choice in both going into the frat boy’s house and entering Kingsfield’s classroom. It’s a sense of uncertainty when they walk into the room and not knowing what to expect.
1. In a way, Hart was very much like Wilson to me, in that his innocence was corrupted by something he was dragged into, or something he didn't necessarily sign up for. Admittedly, Hart does want to go to law school, but Osborn sets up our protagonist's story with a boy diving into a mess that he did not anticipate. Hart does change greatly, but not in a good way. He becomes obsessed, paranoid, downright stressed. With Hart as the protagonist, Osborn shapes a story of a boy corrupted by Law School.
ReplyDelete2. This scene has a new level of horror for me now. The description fits perfectly, how Kingsfield is bullying these kids for years, yet they still try and enjoy it as well. I agree, it is a power struggle, but the students willingly accept the way Kingsfield treats them. None of them question his methods, they only accept them as fact.
1. Hart is unlike all of the other characters in the book for the reason that was mentioned in the beginning of the prompt for this blog post. Hart is the only earnest person that we see in this book. He offers the perfect perspective from which we can sit back and look at Kingsfield and HLS as a whole. Hart sees past the fact that Kingsfield is evil, and he is able to refrain from giving up or claiming that law school is unfair. He works hard and believes that what he does is valuable. If this is a book about law school and the cut-throat culture of American education, Hart is the embodiment of the perfect student. He represents all of the American ideals of hard work and earnestness, both as a student and a person.
ReplyDelete2. I think that the interpretation given in class works well with the book as a whole. On some level, chapter 24 shows the evils of America. It shows the negative side to a culture that drills and attacks its students. Maybe these students would have been rapists even if they hadn't gone to Harvard Law, but I can't help but contemplate the possibility that these boys are casualties of the cut-throat nature of Harvard, driven insane to the point of rape. It's the same phenomenon that occurs in bullies. When people are treated like shit, they learn to treat others the same way. Only truly strong people like Hart are capable of keeping their sanity. The others are left to the dogs.
1. I agree with what almost everyone has said about Hart. He’s got a different outlook on life and school than any of the other characters. He’s eager to learn and succeed, and he’s a little naive about the way the world works. He is the least corrupted character we have. It will be interesting to see if his outlook gets a little more realistic. He is the only person who thinks that he has some kind of special connection with Kingsfield. This belief will probably come crashing down at some point in the book. He also holds Kingsfield to a pretty high standard. He thinks there’s something magical about this guy. It was interesting to see Hart’s reaction after finding out that there was nothing very special about Kingsfield’s law school notes. I think that we’re going to continue to see changes in Hart’s world views. By the end of the book he might be more cynical than anyone else.
ReplyDelete2. I think this interpretation makes a lot of sense. This girl put herself in this situation by deciding to live with these people and joining in their little party. She probably thought it would be fun, but then she found out she was in a pretty bad situation. This is similar to the students at the school. They all came to Harvard thinking (or at least hoping) that they’d be able to do well and get good grades, graduate, and become successful lawyers. Then, they realized it would not be as easy or as pleasant as they had hoped. They are all struggling for power. Kingsfield holds more power than any of the students, and the students try and hold power over each other. It may be through rape or embarrassing another student in class. Either way, Kevin doesn’t know how to handle it.
I think Hart is the protagonist because of all the characters, he seems the most realistic, the most human. He works hard in law school as he's expected to, but he struggles with it at the same time. Through all of his hard work and studying, we see glimpses of the adolescence that Hart still has, something that is realistic because while it is Harvard Law school, they're still young adults with little experience. Hart has the curiosity of a child; there have already been two different scenarios of him sneaking around just to explore. He struggles to find his place, to find out his motives and the reason why he's there in the first place. Another realistic aspect of Hart's life is his relationship with Susan. He struggles to put his priorities straight, to decide between law school and his relationship. He has questions about his relationship, and he struggles to know what it is he really wants from Susan and what he doesn't. Everything is not clear. Hart's struggles, his questions and his unsureness about life and different aspects of life are what makes him so realistic so a person his age who is at law school. We don't see this level of realism with any of the other characters to the extent that we see it with Hart, and this is what makes him so perfect for the part of the protagonist.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with the interpretation. I think the girl in no way is enjoying it. In the book it says that her laughing stops and she begins to thrash with a purpose. This line is the most important in interpreting the situation because it gives the vibe of the situation, which is extremely serious. Yes, her friends are egging him on, but I read this as an act of fear. The girl's "friends" are keeping the focus more on the girl as opposed to themselves to keep themselves out of danger. They are making a joke out of it to cover up the fact that it is serious, and to cover up the fact that what they are doing is seriously wrong. I also don't agree with the interpretation based on when it occurs. This scene with the girl being rapes comes out of nowhere; it catches you off guard. I think that's the point, to catch you off guard, and because of that it hits you (or hits me at least) a little more strongly than if you knew it was coming. The surprise factor in the scene is used to say that this is truly wrong, and that this girl is in no way enjoying it.
1. I think that Hart is the protagonist of this novel because he is the most innocent character and he is a little naive about life. He is like a kid that is learning about life and its harshness. He is the character that is most likely to be change since his views of the school have not been degenerated. We can understand his struggles as students and his life severs as a guide for future years. Also the fact that he loves to study in a world where studying kills you makes a great story.
ReplyDelete2. At first I thought that the interpretation made sense but only in the bare bones of it. Humiliation is a great part of it but that is where it ends. I think the scene of chapter 24 is repulsive and I agree with the fact that it is about power and not about sexual pleasure but I do not agree that this is the case in Kingsfield's class. In class, students are humiliated but some students (the ones that care like Hart) take this as a challenge and try to please Kingsfield. This is what makes them lawyers, they take embarrassment and embrace it as a challenge to become better. The rape in chapter 24 is the act of an insecure person trying to cover his fear by overpowering somebody else by forcing them to do something that humiliates and hurts them.
1. Clearly Hart has a different outlook on the world from the rest of his law school associates. Not only is he doing better than the majority of the other students, he also enjoys school in a way very few of the others do. As we talked about in class Hart is a complete and total nerd. He loves school and gets enormous pleasure from the structure of the law school. Osborn couldn't choose an average student for the role of the protagonist, because it would just be a meaningless story about someone's unhappy experience on his way through law school. Hart is the perfect protagonist in that he loves school, and doesn't allow Law School to take over his personality.
ReplyDelete2. I personally think that no connection can be drawn between the the rape that is going on in chapter 24 and the embarrassment that students are dealing with in Kingsfields class. They are on such enormously different levels of severity that any parallel seems to be putting sexual harassment on the level of the minor embarrassment that goes on in Kingsfields classroom from day to day.
1. I disagree with Andrew-- I think Osborne uses Hart to show how the love of a school can completely morph you into a different person. I think that Hart is used to show that a seemingly well put together young man who can visualize his future can still seem so lost, and how Harvard doesn't help him truly 'discover himself'. I think this is the major issue being pointed out: instead of Hart being able to figure out who he is, he lets the school shape him. He is so earnest, as said before, to please and to prove that he has what it takes to survive law school, even if it means changing himself to do so. Other characters are less moldable.
ReplyDelete2.I understand where John is coming from on the connection from chapter 24. I see the relationship between humilation and power. I also think that there were several loop holes in the argument--like the intentions of Kingsfield are not harmful or violent and in my opinion the only injury the students recieve when walking out of his class is a bruised ego. I think that the point that really stuck with me was the fact that the beer belly and Kingsfield both have no power, no influence without the people around them egging them on. This is a interesting commentary on power.
1) Hart is the protagonist because we can all relate to him in some shape or form. We’ve all experienced the late nights and hair pulling that comes with stress. Because of our relationship with Hart, his struggle and insecurity inclines us to have sympathy for him. We can feel his pain as he fumbles his way through Law School and grows closer with Susan. Hart’s emotions are what appeals most to us.
ReplyDelete2) At first, I disagreed entirely with the analysis, in that I couldn’t see the relationship between the drunk assault and Hart’s experience and school, but after reading some of the other posts and reading the chapter again, it’s beginning to make more sense. Like Zoe said, it’s about the establishment of power. Hart has been manipulated and stripped of his enjoyment in life. He has been trained to bow down to the power that is overtaking him. The same thing could be said about the assault. Osborn uses grotesque details to show the depth of the crime that’s going on. Both of these examples are alike in that there is no fighting back.
1. I agree with a lot of the other people on this blog. Osborn chose Hart to be the protagonist because he is a likable character who we can relate too from the beginning. Then throughout the novel ha becomes more and more obsessed with law school. He tries to get into the mind of Kingsfield. He is so driven that he can't see anything but his dreams of a perfect life. He wants to become a lawyer, marry Susan, have a few kids, and put up a white picket fence to top it all off. He wants to have a distinct plan. He becomes every other law student. We can see this transformation with every chapter. He sneaks into the library to see Kingsfield's and he honestly believes that he has a special connection to Kingsfield. Osborn shows what law school and pressure does to people through Hart.
ReplyDelete2. The end of chapter twelve was horrifying, but I can see the connection between this scene and KIngsfield's classroom. Osborn is trying to prove how terrible power can be in the wrong hands. He first shows power in the classroom setting, but during this scene chapter 24 he puts the image right in your face. We can give excuses to Kingsfield by saying that it is his class room and that he is trying to produce good lawyers, but we cannot make excuses for this. There is a distinct difference between rape and intimidation but there is definitely an underlying connection. People get power by preying on the insecure. Power should be valued to a certain extent, but it should be kept in mind how terrible and horrifying power can become in the wrong hands,
1. Hart is the protagonist because he is so relatable. He is also the only student that seems to be legitimately excited to be at law school. It makes perfect sense that he is the main character because who would want to read a book from the point of view of a boring person. Hart is also a very dynamic character because this novel is all about the way Hart changes as he transitions from a young man to an adult, or subsequently a college student to a lawyer.
ReplyDelete2. Chapter 24 was completely disgusting. I would have never compared this scene to Kingsfields classroom, but when John brought it up it made perfect sense to me. I agree with Elizabeth in that this scene really shows how power is used to humiliate people. Both Kingsfield and Mr. Beerbelly use power in a purposefully taunting and demeaning manor that is quite sickening. I find it surprising that Kingsfield even feels the need to treat his students like this when he could have a fun and interesting class rather than a scary and uncomfortable one.
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ReplyDeleteI believe the choice for Hart as the main character lies in exactly what he is, and how Harvard can utilize him. The others, (Kevin, Anderson, etc.) are too set in their own ways, Kevin in his dismal existence, Anderson in his regulations, but Hart is much more moldable. The teachers at Harvard can form him as they wish, as you would a ball of clay, into what they believe will be a successful lawyer. They would say he has potential, but in reality he simply has the ability to be changed, as even Susan notices.
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John's interpretation of the chapter does make sense, and explains exactly why that scene is even in the book at all. It also goes with the prevailing theme of law school: that of a horror-house. Every action in both scenes correlate, from the friends egging the man on to Kingsfield taunting those under his control with the possibility of Law Review.
1. I agree with Jenny. I think that Hart shows the reality and the other and darker side of Harvard Law School. I also think Osborn gave us Hart as the protagonist, because Hart grows throughout the book. My perspective of Hart has changed as we continue to read. At the beginning, I used to feel kind of bad for Hart, but now, I am annoyed with Hart. Hart is always whining and needs someone to lean on. I also agree with Tanja. I think that Hart is the protagonist, because Hart actually enjoys law school. And even though, he may show us the reality and negatives of Harvard Law school, he shows us his love for law school and learning. It would be very interesting and weird if Kingsfield was the narrator, because the reader doesn't really know what's underneath the surface. I also think it would be completely different if one of the other students, like O'Conner or Kevin was the protagonist. The reader may have a different outlook on the other characters, like Kingsfield, and on Hart.
ReplyDelete2. At first, I thought that the assault is on a totally different spectrum than Kingsfield class. However, I see the similarities with power. Kingsfield is this power in the classroom, and no one can reject this power or fight back. The man who assaulted this woman had full power, and she was powerless. I think Osborn wants to portray that power by showing an dramatic and grotesque scene. I think it just took me a second to compare a rape and a Harvard law school class.
1. Hart is the only one who humanizes Kingsfield. He's an empathetic man who wants to see the good in the teacher who making his life more stressful than he ever could have imagine. Hart is a man who holds on to hope when everyone else has either realized they are hopeless so they give up, or they are so focused on passing that nothing else matters. He is the only one who hasn't given up on maintaining a relationship with anyone or losing human/emotion connection. At one point or another we've all held onto something even when we knew there was no point in believing in it anymore and that makes it easy for us to relate to him. All this being said, I still find him completely annoying and boring.
ReplyDelete2. I think that whether you agree with John's interpretation that the girl enjoyed this or not doesn't matter. Whether she enjoyed it or hated it it still runs parallel to Kingsfield's class. These students may have welcomed Kingsfield's brutality or they may have rejected it completely, but whatever the case they're going to sit through it because Kingsfield holds the power. This beer-belly law student has complete control of this drunk whether she wants to be sexually assaulted or not. Kingsfield is pushing himself onto his students. They're going to do whatever he tells them to and the girl is going to do whatever the beer belly wants. It doesn't matter if you enjoy it or if its morally wrong, you're going to suffer through it. And silently.
I keep remembering what Kevin said to Hart about his uniqueness in the initial quote for this blog. Hart is just the type of person which the law school wants to have, wants to become a lawyer, which makes him the perfect main character for the book, and also a foil to point out the faults in other characters: Kevin's perceived weakness, Anderson's uptightness, and so on. And yet Hart is not perfect. He blows off studying sometimes, he has to work hard for his grades. He's relateable, he's human. This is what separates him from the other law students.
ReplyDeleteOn a very metaphorical level, John's interpretation of the connection between the scene at Moss' house and Kingsfield's classroom works somewhat, but realistically I can't really make it. I think that both beer belly and Kingsfield get their power from the people they are intimidating, but Kingsfield is not physically violating anyone- mentally, perhaps. Beer belly's actions carry more of an intent to personally harm, while Kingsfield is just condescending and contrite to his students. His students accept that because Kingsfield is such a tall figure around the law school, and no one questions his superiority, just as no one questions beer belly's actions, even egging him on.
1. There are many things about Hart that set him apart from the rest of his classmates. Susan flat out says it too, in the quote on page 115. She says that the rest of the law students are "robots." Hart is the only one that seems to show real human emotions, besides anger. Hart's human imperfections are what actually make him perfect for the school. He shows emotions, blows off studying to be with Susan, falls asleep in parks and stumbles home in the middle of the night. I'm reminded of the quote in the first page of the novel where a student can not take any more of Kingsfield and says "You're a real son of a bitch." Kingsfield replies with "That's the first intelligent thing you've said" (2). Kingsfield clearly values this humanity over simply being able to type out a 400 page outline of the case book. Harvard wants people like Hart the most; they want humans. They have an unlimited supply of identical, brilliant robots to choose from.
ReplyDelete2. Both the Kingsfield's classroom and the situation at Moss'
s house are similar in that they both have a figure with all the power and one(s) with none. I think that is really where the similarities end though. While we obviously do not completely know Kingsfield's motives for embarrassing his students, we imagine, possibly overly optimistically, that his actions are supposed to teach something to his students. I would say that there is a pretty slim chance that the Beer Belly is trying to teach the girl anything on the mangy mattress in that house.
Hart is the antagonist because he is eager to achieve something I his life. He may be a bit scrambled with his workload and obsession with Kingsfield's approval, but he is in law school because he is striving for something greater. He is trying and thinking about his future and for a direction in his life. While he searches for this, he also lets school get to his head and it causes him to act differently. He wants to stand out in the class room, have power, demonstrate (to Kingsfield especially) that he is capable of taking on the challenge of Harvard law school.
ReplyDeleteAt first I was totally confused with the comparison of the scene with he classroom. After some explanation and comparison I understood the similarity of the power and humiliation like Anna said. I don't completely accept that the rape and embarrassment if student can be totally a similar and compared but i will accept the themes. In my opinion Kingsfield wants to establish a classroom where everything has to e ordered and right, and that it all has to go his way. If not, one will be embarrassed for disobeying, challenging, disrespecting etc the authority.
Hart is the protagonist because he feels things. He does not fit perfectly into the mold set out for him in society. He is more complex, and therefore more relatable. Everyone wants to believe they have a little bit of Hart in them. Especially since it is a very natural human desire to want comfort and security and stability. It is also a fundamental human desire to want to learn as seen with Hart, who so avidly devours writings. Hart is interesting because he's naive, he's escaped from the societal, OCD, monster that wants to organize people and their lives into neat little molds. To an extent Hart wants to fit in, he want to get married to a girl who seemingly cares little about him or about marrying him at least. The difference is that Hart becomes obsessed with his class, and obsessed with the challenge of being the best possible student he can be. He has found his niche and enjoys the curveballs being thrown at him. It keeps things interesting.
ReplyDeleteThe interpretation is certainly drastic. Maybe too much. In a classroom there is not physical harm being done whereas with the girls, its brutish. Kingsfield runs his classroom with many of the same techniques, namely humiliation and power, but he's smart about it. Kingsfield's actions can be justified and may have the right intentions but the guys at the party are merely playing god and acting as bullies for no valid reason other than that the sake of feeling powerful. This may be due to the fact that they dont have the capabilities to do well at HLS without the help of Moss. The other students in the class have each other's backs to a certain extent. At the party with the big dude, the girls, the bystanders are helpless and do nothing to aid their friend.
I think Hart is the protagonist because he is the most emotionally well rounded person that we have been presented with so far in this novel. The others have too much of one strong aspect, Ford has a tough character, Kevin has a vulnerable one, “[he] stared at the floor, twitching,” and someone like Susan would not be able to show the reader what participating in law school really feels like. Hart is determined, but sensitive, mostly plays by the rules, but just like the school challenges him, he challenges back (sneaking in the red set room). He is able to evenly show the different ranges of emotions and reactions that the intensity of the law school provokes (other students may be at extremes instead).
ReplyDeleteI was shocked when it was said in class, but I understood the connection. I do see how Kingsfield and the beer belly can be compared. They both draw in their victims by seeming appealing. The beer belly has a little party which the girls are probably excited to go to since they are otherwise in this serious, stiff law school environment. Similarly, Kingsfield draws in his first year students by teaching a general, required class which is not expected to be really hard. However, because of Kingsfield’s sternness and attitude the students work harder to impress him than they normally would for his class. We have talked in class about the fact that he does not want not be impressed, but it seems that very few catch on with on and the rest keep trying. Like it has been said, the beer belly and Kingsfield both hold positions of power in these situations. And like Kingsfield taunts his students by challenging them every time they have an interaction with him, the beer belly is taunting the girl by taking her panties off slowly.
I feel that Hart is the protagonist because he is different everyone else. He is well-rounded, complex, and doesn’t fit perfectly into this society with which he is supposed to fit. He is also trying his hardest to do well in Law-School, which is a pity, because he is conforming to the system and doesn’t even know why he is there. Hart is the protagonist because he is so interesting. Kingsfield, who he hates, he also admires, shown when he goes after those notes so fervently. To me, everyone else is kind of… flat.
ReplyDeleteI DO see the connection between that debauchery and Kingsfield’s classroom. And I think I must agree with you. Although it is very strange. But in both, there is a someone with power, watching over someone else as they fight it out amongst themselves. And, if the beer belly is considered to be Kingsfield’s equal in this situation, then we see the others egging him on or not caring when he picks on someone.
I definitely think that the reason that Hart is the main character in the book is that he goes through a lot of change. Although the other characters are interesting additions to the book, they are very set in what they are and they do not really go through many changes throughout the course of the book(and really, how interesting would it be to read a book in which the main character goes through absolutely no emotional development).
ReplyDeleteI do think that your interpretation in class was interesting and there are a lot of parallels but I am still not sure if I feel that I agree completely. I do think it is interesting how the kids in class that ignore Kingsfield and his cruelty to the students in much the same way as Kevin and Moss ignore the discomfort that the girl is experiencing. I think that one of my favorite parallels that can be drawn from that comparison is the way that the man takes off her underwear slowly just to psychologically torture her. I think this is a lot like Kingsfield in the sense that the same actions will be taken in the end but both Kingsfield and the man make sure to find time to add in some psychological torture.
Hart is the protagonist because he is the only one that shows his true emotions. With any of the other characters as the main one, we would be bored by their blandness. Every student either focuses their entire attention on school and studying, leaving no room for any social life. Or they don't do anything productive at all like Kevin. Hart provides the reader a way to relate to the book because like many have already said, we all have a bit of Hart's heart in us.
ReplyDeleteI definitely see how the interpretation works, but I don't think Kingsfield humiliates to deliberately make his students feel violated. But rape does imply that the person causing the harm has internal turmoil they take out by abusing their physical power on someone else. Perhaps Kingsfield has a need to make someone feel the way he once did. The differences I see are that Kingsfield is not actually holding any sort of literal or metaphorical gun to his students' heads nor forcing them to speak up and make a fool of themselves, I think he is simply challenging them. So I can see the interpretation but I really don't think Kingsfield is all that bad, it's the student's reactions that make him look bad. It is the lack of confidence or studying that the students have that makes them humiliated, not necessarily Kingsfield insulting them in front of everyone.