So we come to the end of what's been called the great American novel. It may or may not be, but it sure holds up well. I should know, I've read it probably a dozen times, and as I've said in class, I still find new things in it. And especially in this latest reading, the first time I've ever taught it to an upper level class. The energy of the first weeks of discussion ebbed a little here at the end; maybe the discussion felt a little drawn out by this time. If so, sorry about that. But this is a book, for me, that never gets old. It's as relevant and timely today as it had to have been in 1925, in the midst of the wild jazz era of Prohibition where the rich indeed cavorted the way our characters do. Little did they know that the good times were about to come to an end in a few short years when the Great Depression will devastate America and the world. Fitzgerald obviously couldn't tell the future, but the clarity with which he saw the world of the rich, the clarity with which he saw the climate of America at this moment, both point to a breakdown, a crash, moral if not financial, that had to come. And it did.
Fitzgerald has not finished with Gatsby's life story, even at the end of the novel. His father appears, and he declares "'If [Gatsby] had lived he'd of been a great man...He'd have built up the country," to which Nick can only reply, "'That's true'"—"uncomfortably" (176). We get our last little bit of evidence of where Jay Gatsby began: "'Look here, this is a book he had when he was a boy. It just shows...Jimmy was bound to get ahead. He always had some resolves like this or something...'" (182). So...
1. Clearly, Mr. Gatz is wrong about the Gatsby we know—as Nick himself knows. Yet, given this last bit of evidence Fitzgerald provides in the book of adolescent James Gatz, could Gatsby have been a man to have built up the country? Why?
2. The final part of the American Dream narrative implicit in Gatsby's story on the last page of the novel where Nick, before heading back to morally upright and uniform, postcard-like memories of his mid-western home, looks one last time on Gatsby's "huge incoherent failure of a house" (188). "I then," he thinks, "became aware of the old island here that flowered once for Dutch sailor's eyes—a fresh, green breast of the new world.." Look at the rest of the page to the end of the novel. What do you make of this final moment of the book? And in what way(s) does this, perhaps, reinforce the American Dream aspect of the story? Quote a couple times in your response.
3. Finally. Is Gatsby great? If so, in a sentence, say why. If not, in a sentence say why Nick would think that he is (though he never comes out and says it).
I will not be in school tomorrow, unfortunately—I'm nursing a raging sore throat (not that you really needed to know that). You'll get your first essays and Gatsby topic on Friday. Tomorrow I want you to discuss your responses as a class (Nat should be your sub, and he, smart man that he is, loves this book). No quiz. Friday we will wrap this up. Next week you will work on your essays in class. I look forward to reading your responses tonight. Have a good class tomorrow—give Nat a reason to rave about great, attentive, and smart—wicked smart, as they say in New England—you are. See you Friday.
1. I think at one point in James Gatz's life, he was someone good. Someone honest and someone that loved his parents and wanted to help them. But once he moves East, and meets Mayer Wolfsheim, he is corrupted by the soulless people and cities he creates his empire from. He met Daisy, and his goals changed. It was still about achieving his dream, but his dream was all about money now, not providing for his family, or "making it". I think he was ashamed of that and tried to hide it from his parents, who live in the west.
ReplyDelete2.The final moment of the book is Fitzgerald proposing his thesis on the American dream. He is stating that when the world is so new, and something, "commensurate to his capacity for wonder", it seems like a dream. It's so far away, that we weed out all the bad detail of the dream and make it perfect. We work so hard to get there, that when the, "Dream must have seemed so close that [Gatsby] could hardly fail to grasp it.", We realize that in reality that dream is gone. It has changed, or we have passed it, just as Gatsby missed Daisy. yet we push on, against the current, fighting for what we dream in.
3. Gatsby selfishly pursues a dream that is no longer possible, but he does not know it. Nick sees a man that is everything he ever wanted to be but was not. That is why he refuses to admit he is not great.
1. I think that Gatsby could have built up the country. He could represent nearly every person because he's been rich,he's been poor, he's been giving, he's been selfish, he's gotten amazing opportunities and he's thrown everything away. I think that because we saw so many sides of him, everyone could find at least 1 side of him that they identified with. However, because he's so different and isn't ever really 1 solid person, he seems very unstable and not someone who should be in control.
ReplyDelete2. When Nick says "for a transitory enchanted moment man must have held his breath in the presence of this continent, compelled into an aesthetic contemplation he neither understood nor desired, face to face for the last time in history with something commensurate to his capacity for wonder" (180) I think that's the reaction people would have if they gained the American dream. They would be in awe of this new world of opportunity and wonder that they have just unlocked. I think it also underscores that sometimes people pass the finish line, and still keep going because they don't think they have reached the end yet. "...and his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it. He did not know that it was already behind him, somewhere back in that vast obscurity beyond the city where the dark fields of the republic rolled on under the night" (180) meaning that Gatsby had everything and yet he convinced himself he hadn't quite gotten it all. Even Nick realizes that the place he once called "the ragged edge of the universe" (3) isn't quite as horrible as he thought and that the past holds the key for gaining a futuristic dream.
3. Nick thinks Gatsby is great because Gatsby was able to achieve everything he set out to do despite where he came from and Nick idolized him regardless of all of the bad things Gatsby had done.
1. yes, I think so. In some ways, I think he was the perfect American man. Although he lost sight of what is truly important in life, he had the mind set to get what he wanted and do what was necessary. He was always focused on his dreams, which were quiet grand. In a position of power he would have done a lot to improve the country. However, I wouldn't put it past him to get caught in some elaborate scandal.
ReplyDelete2. The last page seems like a comment on how the American dream is so deeply intertwined with the concurring of all available resources, and i think that it sheds a negative light on the American dream. Without the slightest hesitation, an American will peruse his dream. Just as the "Dutch sailors..." destroyed such a beautiful land to make their new home, Gatsby threw away his life to have Daisy. I think Fitzgerald really values the ability to appreciate life and to not get caught up in your dreams and aspirations.
3. Gatsby is a great hero, a great conqueror of poverty and misfortune. He had a dream, which was to have it all, and so with his own strength he aspired to nothing less. I think Gatsby epitomized greatness in this sense. However, in the eyes of God (not the money God, but the conventional God) Gatsby lived a very blind life, never looking around himself. His eyes were always set on Daisy. He sacrificed his morality and his life to pursue his dreams. In this way, he is a lot like the other characters in the book.
1. I think that Gatsby had the potential to 'build a country'. He had a way to get people to like him with just a smile and he could manipulate them. I believe that he was a nice, honest person in his youth, but the harshness of life taught him to survive at all cause. The honest,poor Gatz died and the corrupt, rich Gatsby was born.
ReplyDelete2. What I think the last page means is that Gatsby never gave up and always believe he could achieve his dream the same way many reach for their American Dream. No matter much "it eluded us then, but that's no matter-tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther...". Even if it kills us, we have to try to the end otherwise we will never reach our dreams. We have to always " believed in the green light" which is money. Money makes the world go round even if it shouldn't. Gatsby believed that money was the key to everything and perhaps it is. Reaching the American Dream means achieving our happiness, but it will most likely require money. Maybe money is the key to happiness.
3. I think that Gatsby was great. Great in the sense that he was amazingly successful economically. His way to achieve riches out of nothing was admirable. He achieve what many strive for in a lifetime yet he was never truly happy.
1. Gatsby was a strong enough man to build the country. Gatsby was changed by the influence of money and power. He could have done anything he wanted with his life if he had set his goals. Gatsby's downfall was Daisy. He became stuck and wasted over five years of his life on something unattainable in the end. Also if Gatsby hadn't chosen a life of crime to obtain money his life story would be changed. Gatsby was powerful on a material stand point, but I think he was seen as strong and smooth because he set a goal and strives for it till the very end.
ReplyDelete2. I see this ending as the mysterious world that Gatsby saw. I think we as the reader gets to see from Nick's eyes what Gatsby thought about when he stood on the shore and looked off at his dream for so long. Fitzgerald shows Gatsby was overwhelmed by the proximity of his dream,"face to face for the last time in history with something commensurate to his capacity for wonder." Nick realizes that Gatsby was so focused on his Dream it became something he lived on and believed in a future where in would appear,"Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us." The American Dream is seen through the striving of Gatsby.
3. Gatsby is great because he fought for his dream with his heart. He set a dream and followed through to the very end. This is why he is the Great Gatsby for me.
1. I think that sure, Gatsby could have been a man that built up the country, but not in a clean-cut, all American way that many people think of. I think he could’ve built up the country with the same selfish motives and thirst for money as so many people nowadays build up our country with.
ReplyDelete2. This final moment in the book relates Gatsby’s pursuit of Daisy as a married women to the pursuit of the “New World” by Dutch settlers. Both were a fresh start and a chance to re-do any mistakes. Gatsby’s was very similar to going back in time and didn’t cause the start of a country, but more the end of a life and a legacy, the Gatsby legacy, which was made up of shady money, lost love, and a whole lot of lust for money.
3. I don’t think Gatsby is great. I think he could have been originally as James Gatz, but that when he found out that Daisy Fay was married, all chances of him being great were lost, because his motives change. I think that Nick sees little bit of himself in Gatsby, and therefore refuses to flat-out hate Gatsby and he also admires Gatsby’s ability to create this little world for himself.
1. I would have to agree with Cam on this one, but maybe even take it a step further. I don't think James Gatz ever had the ability to change the world. The fact that he had planned ahead and written up some general resolves is a fantastic concept for a kid to master, but I in no way think that this puts him in the position to change the country. This is the same Gatsby that gained his fortune by lying and breaking laws. The same Gatsby that spent five years of his life pursuing Daisy on the off chance that she still loved him. No, I don't think Gatsby had the potential to change the country, even when he was still James Gatz.
ReplyDelete2. The last page of this novel seems to exhibit an opinion on the American dream that gives the idea that the dream is unattainable. Even after Gatsby had everything and was so close to everything he could have dreamed he loses everything. His whole life Gatsby strove for wealth and even after he had long since attained all the wealth he could think of he was still striving for something more. As Nick said, "[Gatsby] did not know that it was already behind him, somewhere back in that vast obscurity beyond the city."
3. Gatsby is not great. Nick might think Gatsby is great because he was so devoted so thoroughly to achieving his dream that he did not even realize that he had already achieved it.
I think this last bit of information about Gatsby as a child tells us of Gatsby's determination. It tells us of his drive and his discipline. I think though, that we see this drive and discipline with his courting of Daisy. It is this drive that leads him to become so successful, and I think that trait qualifies him to have the potential of a man to have built up the country. But Gatsby didn't want to be a man to build up the world, and I think that is what's important. While he most definitely had the potential to do so, he was focused on his own personal gain. When he was alive he was selfish I would argue, and would not focus on building up the country as he would be too preoccupied with himself.
ReplyDeleteI think this last part of the novel is when it finally all clicks for Nick. He finally understands the struggle to find what will make you happy. He discovers that it is unattainable and ever changing, that once you reach one goal there will always be a new one that needs to be reached. "Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter-to-morrow we will run faster, stretch our arms farther...And one fine morning-" This realization most definitely ties into the American dream and how it ties in in this novel. What Fizgerald is telling us about the American dream in this novel is that the American dream is a search for happiness. It is a search for self-fulfillment, to accomplish one's goals. He also tells us that even if you have everything, there is always more, and that's what makes the dream so impossible to attain. Gatsby is the perfect example of this. He has everything, and yet he still wants more in Daisy. He dies lounging in his marble pool for Christ's sake, and he is probably as far from happy as he has ever been. He wants to have a sense of accomplishment that materials things cannot give, and I think that is the main point of what Fitzgerald is trying to tell us about the American dream.
Gatsby is great because he has built himself from the ground up. He becomes something out of nothing and is to be admired for that. Yet Gatsby is not great because in truth, Gatsby accomplishes nothing with his life in that by the end, he has not fulfilled his dream and has left no real impact on anyone beside Nick.
1. I think he definitely could have built up the country. The only thing stopping him would be lack of motivation to do so. His goal wasn’t to build up the country; it was to become rich. But, if he wanted to, he could have. He’s obviously a smart, resourceful person. He builds himself up from nothing: rags to riches. He doesn’t do it in the most kosher of ways, but that doesn’t really matter. His morals are questionable at best, but that doesn’t matter either. One doesn’t have to be a “good” or moral person to be great or to do something great. In fact, the less morality you have, the easier it probably is to succeed. When I say great, I mean amazing and impressive, not necessarily something that contributed to the betterment of society. Gatsby did something great. He did something most people could only dream about. His rigorous schedule jotted down in the book shows how focused a person he was. Had he been motivated to build up the country, I think he’s the type of person who could have.
ReplyDelete2. In the last sentence of the book, Nick says, “So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.” This is symbolic of Gatsby’s (and everyone else’s) pursuit of a dream. It’s a dream that everyone strives for, yet no one truly reaches it. Gatsby set out to be rich, and he accomplished it. He found it completely unsatisfying. He didn’t get Daisy, but I imagine that if he actually had gotten her he would have ended up just as unhappy. He had built her and this dream up so much in his mind just because of his memory of a short period of time. “He did not know that it was already behind him, somewhere back in that vast obscurity beyond the city, where the dark fields of the republic rolled on under the night.” He already passed his dream. He kept striving for more because upon reaching that dream (whenever that was), he found that it could not make him happy.
3. I do think Gatsby is great. He’s not an especially moral person, but that’s not necessarily what makes a great person. He was able to accomplish something amazing against all odds. It didn’t make him happy in the end, but it was still something that not many people would be capable of.
1. Gatsby is a dreamer and a forward thinker; or at least he once was. This country as built on the dreams of a better life, a better world, where the unconventional became reality. Sadly, though, Gatsby was corrupted by the already existing society. Gatsby could have built the country, but he was about a hundred and fifty years too late. Think of a country like a house; it starts with the foundation, and is slowly built up into a beautiful creation. But renovations and additions to the house make it a monstrosity, too big for its foundation. Inevitably, it will collapse.
ReplyDelete2. Green not only represents money, but also lush pastures, full of unaltered life. The Dutch sailors came to America to escape from the past, just as how Gatsby threw his away. Gatsby "believed in the green light", the ability to start anew, which is what Fitzgerald is saying the original American Dream was. But the Dutch sailors came "face to face for the last time in history" with this ability, and Gatsby's time cannot facilitate his dream.
3. Gatsby is great; he achieved what few could imagine, but Gatsby also had the great misfortune of a bumpy past.
1. If theres one thing we know about Gatsby, he has a hell of a lot of motivation. Through the list that Gatsby's father shows us, we see that Gatsby has known that he was destined for greater things (wealth) since he was quite young. I do think that this is a typical sign of innocence though. It is almost like children saying they want to be the president or just aspiring to be something greater. The only difference is that Gatsby actually tries to pursue this. I really respect that he had the motivation to "grab himself by the bootstraps," but he used illegal ways to reach his level of wealth.
ReplyDelete2. Fitzgerald really uses these last couple pages of the novel to tie together the entire idea of the american dream that has been the underlying thesis of this story. When Nick says that he "became aware of the old island here that flowered once for Dutch sailors eyes--a fresh, green breast of the new world" it reminded me of how Gatsby viewed Daisy. He saw her as the start to his new life (new world) and she became his goal in life, which is essentially his happiness. What started out as such an innocent and lovely idea of the pursuit of happiness turned into an obsession of material objects. When Nick says, "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past," I think that Nick is referring to how life has moved on after Gatsby's death. This is just like how Tom, Daisy, and Jordan moved on from both Myrtle and Gatsby's deaths. All they care about is their selves, so their disgusting and materialistic lives move on.
3. Nick idolizes Gatsby because of how far he has come and how much money he has made, despite the ways he did this. Gatsby was great in that he had the motivation to change his life, but I don't think anyone can be truly great when they aren't living life to the fullest. Gatsby's life is all about the pursuit of daisy: his happiness.
1. No Gatsby could not of been a man to build up the country. He is too weak-hearted. He's desperate. Gatsby has no courage. Gatsby may appear as this classy, rich, strong man, who was a captain in the war; however, he's weak and desperate. He's kind of like this lost puppy chasing after Daisy. He's not an independent man. He relies on Nick and Daisy and his servants. Gatsby may appear to society as this wealthy, strong, army man, but in reality he's lost in this big upper class world.
ReplyDelete2. Nick is looking back at Gatsby's house and Gatsby's lifestyle and sees the American Dream. In Nick's eyes, Gatsby has achieved the American Dream, but Gatsby believed he was still chasing his dream, Daisy. But Nick think that Daisy is Gatsby's past, and it's behind him. Gatsby can't ever "achieve" the dream of Daisy. "He (Gatsby) did not know that it was already behind him, somewhere back in that vast obscurity beyond the city, where the dark fields of the republic rolled on under the night." Daisy was Gatsby's past, and Gatsby can't go back. I love this quote: "tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther... and one fine morning--" I'm not 100% sure what Nick means. But I think the first parts means that we will always be fighting the American Dream. We will always be reaching for that "green light". And then someday, we will either realize we have achieved the dream or we can't ever achieve it.
3. Gatsby may be great in Nick's and society's eyes, because he achieved the American Dream. He was poor and became rich. But I personally do not believe Gatsby is great.
1. I think that Gatsby was determined and well driven as a child, and he could have used that determination to do something important. But I think his motives changed when he became older and moved to New York. He was no longer set on making himself but instead simply becoming rich for Daisy. In the end, Gatsby had narrowed himself to the pursuit of money and Daisy. He clearly could have really been someone, but his intentions were in the wrong place.
ReplyDelete2. I think the last page is talking about Gatsby's pursuit and the general pursuit of the American Dream. It is all about hope and wanting. The land goes from being a dream to new settlers to Gatsby's dream: "Its vanished trees, the trees that had made way for Gatsby's house, had once pandered in whispers to the last and greatest of all human dreams". Most of Gatsby's life was about getting to that house, then all he had to do was get Daisy: "He had come a long way to this blue lawn, and his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it". I think Nick is saying that Gatsby thought he could have it all; he could truly be with Daisy. But Nick thinks this is impossible: "Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us".
3. I think Gatsby is great. He strived for his goal, and never gave up. He didn't need the parties and the falsities like Tom and Daisy do; he had a sense of self and he did things that he knew would make him happy.
1. I agree with many of the points made. I believe that Gatsby was an incredibly motivated young man. He planned out his life, he even told himself to be nicer to his parents. He wanted to create the best opportunities possible. I believe he could have done anything he set his mind to. However, he was too enthralled with the old money, East Egg society to go through with it. I believe in a way it is Daisy's fault that Gatsby could never build the world up. When he met her, found the idea of her, the grail, he lost his motivation to do good. He became overwhelmed by the selfish people surrounding him and became one of them. Had he wanted to, he could have done anything, everything. Instead he became corrupted and selfish.
ReplyDelete2. This final passage reiterates a reoccurring theme of the novel. The debate over old vs new money. Nick admits he is from old money, less so than Tom or Daisy but still he says, "...a little complacent from growing up in the Carraway house in a city where dwellings are still called through decades by a family's name." Nick comes from that tradition, that past, to which Gatsby was completely foreign. Tom and Daisy, as well as all of East Egg represents the old money, the manors, the huge amounts of wealth. Nick is less affected by it, however than Daisy and Tom. He says of them "they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money" Nick is disgusted by this complacency and security that comes along with being obscenely wealthy. While he too is wealthy, he does not don his money like a mask. I think in the end, though he detests Gatsby's ultimate goal of wealth, he respects Gatsby's goal of the American Dream. He respects the rise to the top from nothing. He respects Gatsby's drive and desire, he just does not respect what Gatsby desired.
3. Gatsby had his moments of grandeur. He achieved the American Dream, but at what cost? He left the world as unknown and not-respected as he entered it. He would be greater, in my eyes, if he had done something. Had he worked for a more concrete goal, had he chosen to do good with his copious amounts of money I would have respected him more. Instead he became the selfish, lonely, fake wealth that has a facade of greatness, but in reality is no better than being the poor working man he was before.
1. I think the closest Gatsby ever got to being a man who could build up the country was when he was working for Cody. He was driven, hard-working, and focused. Once he met Daisy and his focus changed to simply obtaining her and doing everything for the pursuit of this "relationship," his ability to be the great man he should have been went out the window. He got distracted and let the idea of Daisy consume him.
ReplyDelete2. The last page is clearly a comment or a criticism of the american dream. Fitzgerald makes me think if we're even supposed to him what the american dream because it doesn't seem to be what we think it is. Or does it ever satisfy us in the way that we imagine it to? All Gatsby wants to do is be with Daisy but he doesn't even notice what she represents- money and material. By the end, what does this pursuit mean? Nothing. No one comes to his funeral. No one truly cares from him. Fitzgerald is saying that the american dream is much more than an attempt to be the richest and wealthiest. It's about who is there in the end. As cheesy as that is. "He did not know that it was already behind him." Gatsby never got to realize his true american dream and he never had time to try to redeem his misunderstanding of what the american dream truly is.
3. I don't know if Gatsby is great, but I do feel bad for him. It makes me sad that he never experienced a true friend or an honest relationship. It makes me even sadder that in the end he has absolutely nothing of importance.
1. Yes, I think that Gatsby good have used his powers for good. His strive for greatness could have translated in much more wholesome and productive ways, and his charism would have gotten him very far as well. I agree with Zoe, my having such a specific life goal in which he put all of that obcessive energy (because that schedual was pretty intense), he in turn limited his oportunities. His scope was too narrow.
ReplyDelete2. The final moments of the novel do relate directly with the American Dream. I think the best line that sums up the problem with the American Dream is ,"...for a transitory enchanted moment man must have held his breath in the presence of this continent, compelled into an aesthetic comptemplation he neither understood nor desired,face to face for the last time in history something commensurate tohis capacity to wonder." This is Nick imagining the last time that man felt complete and utter amazement, accomplishment, and satisfaction. Now he's seen that no one can be truly satisfied with life. There is always something more. He goes on to say, "[The green light] eluded us then, but no matter-- tomorrow we will run faster, strech our arms out farther..."
This beautifully descibes the drive that many people experience-- that faith that if you just keep working towards your goal, it can be achieved. This is a message we see every single day.
3. I agree with Zoe, I think Gatsby is great. He may have done things I did not approve of or understand completely, but he know who he wanted to be, and he did everything in his power to make that happen. Even though he achieved what he did in illegal ways, it still says a lot about the stregnth of his character.
1. I think that at some point in his life Gatsby had the ability to build up the country. He has a disposition that draws people to him. He could have been a good politician. Earlier in his life, Gatsby was driven and bent on success. Then he met Daisy and it all went wrong. He spent all of his time working to get a girl that he thought was nice. His pursuit of Daisy does get him wealth, but what else does he have? He apparently only has one friend and he was only using that friend to get to Daisy. Daisy didn't even come to his funeral. He wasted his life in the pursuit of Daisy to the point that he forgot to live. He might have been able to do great things, but we will never know.
ReplyDelete2.The last page is about the American Dream through the years. It starts with the Dutch and then compares them to Gatsby. This page brings out how unattainable the American Dream really is: "It eluded us then, but that's now matter- tomorrow we'll run faster, stretch our arms out further...And one fine morning-"This quote shows how everyone believes that if a person tries just a little bit harder or pushes herself a little bit harder she can achieve the American dream. The American Dream is and idea, just like Gatsby's life. He doesn't really know Daisy, he just thinks she would be the perfect thing to top off his perfect life. She is from this money and looks as if she is living the American Dream. Gatsby wants a piece of that. He goes almost mad trying to reach the top: "...his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it. He did not know that it was already behind him, somewhere back in that vast obscurity beyond the city." Gatsby wastes all his time aspiring towards the perfect life that he doesn't see what he already has and had.
3. I wouldn't say that Gatsby is great, but I do feel a little bit sorry for him. Nick thinks that he is great because of Gatsby's accomplishment and his continual pursuit of the American Dream. Nick wishes he could be more like Gatsby or at least have the drive that Gatsby has.
1. I feel like Mr. Gatz is right in that Gatsby could have built up the country. Maybe at some point, but I'm not sure when. But, Gatsby would have to have had the passion for it, just like the passion for Daisy. We haven seen what he can do when he puts his mind to it. While through illicit means, in a mere five years, he was able to go from poor soldier boy to rich man living in a mansion. But, by meeting Daisy, his sight was limited, and all he could see was Daisy, a golden grail made of lead. If he had had his eyes opened, he could have been truly great.
ReplyDelete2. I feel like Gatsby's dream and the Dutch are connected, simply with the green (the tress vs the light). But, they are also connected when they chased a dream. The Dutch came to the New World and saw this great expanse of land, of beautiful green trees that were alter cut down to build the House Gatsby lived in and died in (property line). And this reinforces the American Dream as something we constantly are changing and are constantly striving for with this line: "It eluded us then, but that's no matter--to-tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther. . . And one fine morning----" (180) and this refers to the "orgastic future that year by year recedes us". And when Gatsby chased after his image of perfection, his dream, he got so close: "He had come a long way to this blue lawn, and his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it." (180)
3. I feel like Gatsby is great in the sense that he was able to build himself up from practically nothing. He was a poor country boy who had almost nothing, and yet, he set out with a goal and almost achieved that goal, despite how far away and difficult it was to get that far. Gatsby is great in that he pursued and achieved his American Dream (save for getting the girl). But, I do not like Gatsby or approve of his actions.
1. If Gatsby hadn't been so fixated on becoming rich and successful, I think that he certainly could have become an important citizen (in the way other than hosting parties), a pillar of society. He has the self-discipline to do it, as is evidenced by his "schedule" in the book that Gatz shows Nick. He also has good people skills, a certain charm about him that is attractive to Nick and Daisy (at one point) and many others. He still had the drive to become famous, just for all the wrong reasons; this is one way Fitzgerald is portraying his being in it just for the money. Gatsby doesn't really want to think about anything else besides getting Daisy back.
ReplyDelete2. In a way these two paragraphs are about the American dream, but in another way they are about Gatsby and his dream, emphasis on dream, not reality: "He did not know it was already behind him." Sometimes striving to achieve a goal is better than attaining the goal, and that is certainly the case here. As the New York of the 1920's cannot hope to look back to its origins in the men of the Dutch East India Company who first landed there, Gatsby cannot suddenly reverse things to how they were five years ago with Daisy. "Compelled into an aesthetic contemplation he neither understood nor desired"--Fitzgerald is really talking to the reader about the nature of New York and its corrupting influence on people, the desire to have it all, to rise above your birth, the "american dream" itself. The captivation of New York was obviously too much for Gatsby.
3. Gatsby was great, could have been great. Nick still sees the James Gatz, the beach bum and the charmer, but Gatsby can unfortunately only live in an idealized version of the present that will never come to be.
I’m not sure that Gatsby would be capable of building up the country, because although he did manage to build himself up like few people are capable of doing, he did it in an immoral way; he cheated (in a way) by not honestly working hard to earn all of what he has. I think Gatsby hid what he had really become from his parents, because they were bound to ask questions about it if they had seen his properties while he was still alive—how did you manage to get this? What are you going to do with your life now? All questions with shameful answers—illegal business and fight to get Daisy=more money. Another reason why Gatsby could not have built up the country in my opinion is that he is too unstable, he has too many secrets. Although he makes people feel comfortable and reassured with his smile, it’s a feeling which fades in and out and in the end these acquaintances realize that Gatsby isn’t really all that interested in them. And this stirs up gossip about him and everyone drifts away, unless there is a party. In the end no one, with the exception of Owl Eyes, went to his funeral.
ReplyDeleteWhat else do we have except our dreams? Gatsby’s dream was to become rich, marry a rich girl, and have a wonderful life, but how could he have known that the rule of society would defeat him. Unlike the explorers who had first come to this, “fresh, green breast of the new world” to explore and learn, Gatsby came for success and to exploit this world. “Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that’s no matter—to-morrow we will run faster,” Nick is saying that Gatsby is not the only poor fool who believed in the “green light,” they all did. All of society likes to believe that success and money brings happiness along with comfort. After all what can society do besides hope and strive? Gatsby’s dream originated when he had no sense of society’s rules (rich girls didn’t marry poor boys) and when he lived in a place where social hierarchy was less evidently divided. This made his dream more realistically attainable and so Gatsby set off like a train in the night, rolling through the fields, not needing nor wanting to see the dark fields it was passing, simply going along its track to reach that distant goal/dream.
Gatsby is a great success if you measure his material trapping, but he is not happy.
I think Gatsby was capable of building the country. He is the definition of the American Dream. He pursued happiness which in his case was Daisy, and he overcame poverty which is what most of our country tries to do, and in the end he died for what he believed in. No I think that there are a couple of things that Gatsby could have done better, in now way is he perfect, however he is a man of America. His great ideas, define Americas big hope in dreams of starting a new country. His ability to work hard for what he wants and believes in is what America was built on, and his dedication to a cause is what we hope many Americans have about everything. Now, I do not belive that what Gatsby was chasing was purely American, Daisy may not have been exactly the goal that America was built upon, but the way in which Gatsby tried to achieve his goal, and the lengths in which he went to, to secure a good life, and to make in dreams comes true is what the Amerian Dream is all about and really what America was built upon. I think perople like Gatsby could have built this country purely based on their dedication to a cause and willingness to do whatever it takes to make sure they get what they want.
ReplyDeleteI think Nick is realizing that Gatsby was not all that Nick thought he was. H is realizing that Gatsby while, yes he had alot of "friends" and a lot of parties he was not what Nick wanted to be really. He is realizing that everything that Gatsby had really wanted was Daisy and that he never had a chance. He lost daisy they day she didn't come to say god bye. I also think this last page is about the American dream, and whether is is truly possible. He says, "He did not know that is was already behind him, somewhere back in the vast obscurity beyond the city...." I think this says not only about Gatsby's dreams but about a lot od peoples dreams, that when people want something, they will never give it up. They have blinders on that prevent them from seeing anything other then their goal, and in reality most have already lost it, before they even started working for it. Which, yes I think is kind of depressing especially when we apply this to the American dream because to me it says there is really no hope, however Nick never says don't try for it, he says the opposite, "It eluded us then, but that;s now matter--to-morrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther...And one fine morning---" He says we do keep going, and we should keep going because we never know what tomorrow will bring, and we do not know the future, so we should jut keep going forward.
I think Gatsby is great. Not just from his material possessions which I think enhance is greatness, but also his ability to change himself to fit situations, and his ability to be who he wants to be, and the struggle it took for him to make it where he was was incomparable. James Gatz, or Gatsby is a great man because he made himself great. He made himself what he is today, and that is an Amazing Person, even is he is not happy.
I think Gatsby could definitely have been the guy to “built up the country” he really had a good mindset about what he wanted in life and his list is very surprising. One would think he sounds selfish because everything in the list is to improve himself but then we get this little surprise, “be better to parents”. Personally, I love ending this book knowing Gatsby’s heart was in it somewhat. He now seems like the only character that really strived for specific things. And it’s interesting that his father said “if he had lived” because what keeps coming back to me is that most of these characters have no souls or feelings and just seem dead inside. Gatsby could have been the guy to break the cycle of ignorant, superficial, dumb choice-making people, but of course people can and will change their minds.
ReplyDeleteI think Nick sees that Daisy was his American Dream, “he did not know it was already behind him.” This is why I kept mentioning yesterday in class that Gatsby was living in a dream because everything he lived for was superficial. Perhaps for Gatsby’s story it’s safer to say he was happier striving and working very hard for this dream than when he had it all. Because like Nick says, “to-morrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther...” I think what Nick meant to say is that once Gatsby did achieve everything he would still not be satisfied 100%. It’s like senior citizens today that retire and should feel relieved but after a few weeks they feel useless and many have trouble letting go of work; the purpose of their life.
Gatsby is great because whether or not he lived his dream fully, he inspires others to work very hard to earn it like he did.
1) I don’t think Gatsby is a bad man. We’ve come to know him from someone who has not known him for more than a few months. Gatsby’s father, who has known him for his whole life, is a much more secure and trustworthy character. From the things that we hear from his father, the story of James Gatz is tragic. He achieves his dream of finding riches, but it doesn’t matter to him anymore. Daisy has become his only dream and he fails in his quest to marry her.
ReplyDelete2) I’m still not sure how it ties into the American dream, but this book ends leaving every character and scene with a hollow feeling. All of these riches and wealth have been on display throughout the book, and we finish with loneliness and an empty house. “his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it. He did not know that it was already behind him, somewhere back in that vast obscurity beyond the city, where the dark fields of the republic rolled on under the night.” Gatsby has failed, and Nick, his newly found neighbor, is his last and only friend.
3) No, he is not. The “greatness” of Gatsby is the guise he puts on to trick everyone into thinking he is this all-mighty man, when he’s nothing but a self-conscious and desperate man.