"So the whole caravansary had fallen in like a card house at the disapproval in her eyes" (120).
What began with stairways to heaven and shirts thrown like confetti into the air has become a full flung daily affair conducted in broad daylight as the parties have ended and Gatsby's servants are replaced by "villainous faced" men who won't "gossip" (120-121). Who finds Daisy and Gatsby cute now?
The conflicts come to a head, truths are revealed, innocents die (and I would call Myrtle an innocent in this sickened and sickening world, "sick" a state shared by both Wilson and by the end Nick himself—though I'm not sure Nick is so innocent at the end of this chapter).
1. So what is your reaction to this chapter? What quote or moment or scene particularly jumped out at you or stayed with you even after you read? And why? Go ahead and quote in your response.
2. I asked Friday if Daisy objectively was worth what Gatsby did to get her back. How would you answer that question now (and by the way, this is the last we see of her in the novel)? In fact, what do you think of Daisy now? Quote once in your response.
3. "I'd be damned if I'd go in; I'd had enough of all of them for one day and suddenly that included Jordan too" (150). Fitzgerald could be speaking for all of us by this point in the book. Who have you had "enough" of the most by the end of this chapter—and why? Go ahead and quote in your response.
Take a few minutes to answer this: this 200 words or so in all. Don't forget that I'm looking for proper spelling and mechanics in your responses. Try not to repeat each other.
Finally. Not only is Gatsby coming to the 24 screen metroplex nearby, but is also returning to the stage in New York appropriately enough. Gatz is a nearly 7 hour reading aloud of the entire novel. It was a hit when first performed by the experimental theater troupe Elevator Service Repair. There is a review of the original production on my board next to the clock—and a positive review it is. Take a look at this and this. And PLEASE look at this. This is how the production actually looks.
Tomorrow we start pulling everything together and seeing what really does the book have to do with American Dream. I bet by now you can tell me. See you then.
1. This was a huge chapter. With Myrtle dead, Daisy in conflict with Tom, Tom left without either of the women he was in a relationship with, and something shady going on with Gatsby anything could happen between now and the end. The scene that stood out to me the most was when the bystander steps in and says, "It was a yellow car, big yellow car. New." While I was reading about Myrtle's death I convinced myself that the driver of the car that hit Myrtle was scum, seeing as the driver did not so much as stop to see if the person they hit was ok. But suddenly we are told that it was a big, new, yellow car and it's entirely obvious that the car was Gatsby's.
ReplyDelete2. I would say that Daisy is still not worth all that Gatsby did to get to her. Clearly the actions that Gatsby took to amass the sheer amount of money were not morally acceptable. And I stand my ground on the opinion that Daisy, as a person, is not worth what Gatsby had to do to get to her. She is immature and indecisive. I think that by the end of this chapter my opinion of Daisy changed somewhat. My respect for her was very slightly raised as she admitted that she at one point absolutely did love Tom, and I did feel bad for her in that she has two powerful and idiotic men pulling her in two different directions. When Gatsby says directly to her, "You never loved him." It's as if Gatsby doesn't even think of Daisy as a person, he just wants to prove to himself that she was equally as obsessed with him as he was with her.
3. I've pretty much become tired of every character in the book. Nick somewhat redeems himself by refusing to enter the house, and Jordan's personality somewhat endears her to me. But Daisy's drama, Gatsby and Tom's idiocy, and Myrtle's suicide all just made me sigh. It's frustrating enough to have to put up with ridiculous drama in high school, the idea of living with it post teenage hood is horrible.
1. When I started reading this chapter, I immediately thought of it as a parallel to the beginning of the book, with Daisy and Jordan once again on the enormous couch, lounging. This is followed by heavy drinking and a trip to town into an apartment, just like with the stuffy people where Tom breaks Myrtle's nose, but in this chapter, he breaks Gatsby's dream; and at the end, Gatsby is once again alone watching and wanting Daisy. What stuck out the most to me was Gatsby's dedication to Daisy; he is willing to take the fall for her manslaughter even though he knows he can never have her, "but of course" he will say that he was driving. However "creepy" he may be, at least he is noble.
ReplyDelete2. I still think that Daisy is not worth it. I don't know why these two men are fighting so furiously for her, as she seems morally inept and just goes with whoever's talking. At first I though she would show more character, but I was wrong. When Gatsby says "You never loved him", she says "I never loved him". When Tom says "She's not leaving me", she basically yields to Tom. I thought she would be strong, but she is not.
3. I had enough of Tom when he first appeared, and I had even more enough of him by the end of the chapter. he completely disregards his own affair, saying that "Nowadays people begin by sneering at family life and family institutions", and that "the latest thing is to sit back and let Mr. Nobody from Nowhere make love to your wife". He suddenly becomes a champion of "family values" when what he doesn't like happens, and he doesn't even consider the though that Daisy might have thought that Mrs. Nobody made love to her husband. His ignorant sexism and racism, "next they'll throw everything overboard and have intermarriage between black and white", makes me wish he got hit by the car instead of innocent Myrtle.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSorry about that. Folks, Alex's post is worth rereading. His connections between the beginning and this part of the book are insightful. Fitzgerald has brought us back to our first glimpses of Daisy and Tom, and think about what has changed since then: the cool breeze now supplanted by an oppressive heat, the way Daisy so brashly kisses her lover Gatsby while Tom is just a room or two away: we are compelled to look back to the first chapter. Alex brings up how Daisy ultimately yields to Tom: now why would she do that? And finally, Tom's utter hypocrisy and fatuousness that make Nick almost laugh. Where else has he almost laughed when hearing someone speak? Ah...our hero Gatsby. Gatsby, Tom, Tom, Gatsby—can we tell them apart anymore?
Delete1. The moment that stuck out to me the most was the moment when Gatsby comes out of the bushes to talk to Nick. He acts too nonchalant about the car crash: "He spoke as if Daisy's reaction was the only thing that mattered." When he hears of Myrtles death he doesn't seem to care: "I thought so; I told Daisy I thought so. It's better that the shock come all at once. She stood it pretty well." He doesn't get it. All he cares about is that Daisy feels better. He will barely let Nick tell him anything. He pushes away the death of a woman. Then he stalks Daisy's house. It isn't romantic anymore. Gatsby's character gets more and more odd every chapter. He literally lets Daisy get away with murder.
ReplyDelete2. Daisy is weak. She lets everyone push her around and then she goes behind their back to do what she really wants. She won't even take the responsibility for running over Myrtle. She acts like a victim. She wants everyone to feel sorry for her. Gatsby shouldn't want to be with a woman who doesn't have the courage to admit that she loves him:
"You never loved him."
She hesitated...she realized at last she knew what she was doing-and as though she had never, all along, intended doing anything at all. But it was done now. It was too late.
"I never loved him," She said, with perceptible reluctance.
She lets everyone push her around and is not reliable when times get tough. Daisy is not trustworthy and is not worth all of Gatsby's time and effort. He has been working so hard to earn someone who was never their in the first place.
3. When Nick left for the east he was looking for adventure and trying new things. He did not come for the drama. Life has become so complicated and this is beginning to be to much for him. His dead end hometown doesn't seem so terrible anymore. Nick's cousin just ran over her husband's mistress with Gatsby in the car. Nick doesn't know all of this until closer to the end of the chapter, but with all the excitement and drama of the chapter Nick's anger is understandable.This is all on his birthday as well: "I was thirty. Before me stretched the portentous menacing road of a new decade...So we drove on toward death through the cooling twilight." Nick can't catch a break in this town. He suddenly realize its his birthday and then someone dies. I think Nick leaves soon after this incident and the next decade of his life takes him back home.
1. It's hard to pick just one moment that stood out to me out of this whole chapter. There are multiple scenes that either change the story or alter our views on how we see these characters. One scene that stood out to me and really bothered me was when Gatsby and Nick come over to Daisy's house and they decide to go into town. Daisy says to Tom, "'You take Nick and Jordan. We'll follow you in the coupé.' She walked close to Gatsby, touching his coat with her hand." It really bothers me that Daisy is so obvious about her affair with Gatsby. Not that Tom was so discreet, but he at least didn't parade Myrtle around Daisy nor did he ever introduce them. It also really stuck out to me when Tom says, "Did you see that?" "See what?" "You think I'm pretty dumb, don't you?" I love the emotion we see from Tom in this chapter. He's suddenly seeing that everything he thought was his and forever his, isn't so. Tom feels that he's invincible and entitled, but he nearly loses everything that ever mattered to him in this chapter.
ReplyDelete2.I still dislike Daisy. However, she is worth it to Gatsby. She consistently favors him in this chapter, and in my opinion she leads him on, but she does show him the attention and favorability that he has longed for for the past 5 years. Daisy bothers me because she just cannot make up her mind. She doesn't know what she wants so instead she just drags these two men along for the ride. Even after all the revelations of what's going on between Daisy and Gatsby, she goes home with Tom. She finally has a way out of this horribly unhappy marriage, but she just doesn't take it. After killing Myrtle, she goes home to the husband who she never wanted to marry instead of the man that she's loved since she was 18. I hate that she lets the men argue over why she did something or who she loves. She's too weak to even say how she feels or speak for herself to be honest in the most honest part of the whole book. "She hesitated. Her eyes fell on Jordan and me with a sort of appeal, as though she realized at last what she was doing- and as though she had never, all along, intended doing anything at all." She had absolutely no intention of exposing the truth. She doesn't realize the consequences of staying quiet about what she wants.
3. I'm annoyed at all of them at this point. I'm tired of Daisy not being honest, I'm tired of Gatsby pushing himself into the middle of things, and I'm tired of Nick being the "nice guy." I like Tom a little more of the others because I liked that he was actually upset about the lack of honesty on Daisy's part, where as Daisy had very little reaction to her husband's extramarital affairs.
1. Everything in this chapter was either abruptly crushed by a fast moving vehicle, or surfaced in an argument. Every detail, tension between characters, or dislike was brought up and addressed. The characters really show their true colors once Tom confronts Gatsby, and Nick/the reader gets a real understanding of the "love" between Daisy and Gatsby. The most memorable line to me, which I find extremely potent, is the last sentence of the chapter, "So I walked away and left him standing there in the moonlight-watching over nothing." This is when Nick realizes that Gatsby has no chance. Everything has been ruined for him, yet he still wont let go, and Nick is disgusted by that. Gatsby is watching over nothing.
ReplyDelete2. Daisy is obviously not sided with Gatsby as much as he thought after the end of this chapter. I agree with what Alex said, when she just sides with whomever is speaking at that moment. We now finally realize why she didn't leave Tom, because at one point she really did love him. Thats just my theory, but It really did make me lose respect for her if she just had no guts to tell Gatsby rather than swoon over him this entire time. The only moment in the book she shows any independence, is when Tom talks of how he may cheat sometimes, but won't any longer. she replies with, "'You're revolting'". This is the only time I've ever heard her tell off Tom, and I was surprised when she said it.
3.Gatsby had run me down to my last nerve by the end of this chapter. I know that Daisy may not be Independent whatsoever, but when Gatsby says, "'...In her heart she never loved anyone except me!'" I was laughing. He sounds so childish, so naive at this point, he no longer seemed all that "Great".
1. Given that the entire chapter is shocking, Tom's reaction to Myrtle's death surprise me the most. Since the beginning of the book, I saw Tom as a character with a "cruel body" that was not human. He never showed much emotion until later chapters, but in this chapter, I saw a side of Tom that I was not expecting. He begin to break down when his suspicions about Gatsby were beginning to be confirmed but Myrtle's death hit him hard. "In a little while I heard a low husky sob and saw that the tears were overflowing down his face. 'The God Damn coward' he whimpered. 'He didn't even stop his car'", this quotation made me realize that Tom, like Gatsby, lost their tough-guy persona and came out as humans. At this point, I felt a little sympathy for Tom.
ReplyDelete2. I still don't think that she was worth 5 years of his life and the amount of money he invested. In the other hand, I feel bad for Daisy. She has been unhappy for the past five years of her life and then this, " Anyhow-Daisy stepped on it". It appears that Daisy's story does not have a happy ending. At the end it appears Tom and Daisy are meant for each other, "There was an unmistakable air of natural intimacy about the picture". The can't live together yet they can't live apart.
3. Naturally I am tired of Tom, but most of all, I had enough of Nick. I am tired of him not doing anything and just being there. He acts undignified at the end of this chapter, "I'd be damned if I'd go in; I'd had enough of all of them for one day and suddenly that included Jordan too", when he is as much guilty as anyone else in the book. John is right, Myrtle was innocent in this chapter and Nick is far from being innocent. Not only does he know who really killed Myrtle but he doesn't act like is a big deal. I'd had enough of all of them for one book and suddenly that included Nick too.
Just to reinforce what Aldo writes, think about this exchange:
Delete"I'm a friend of his." Tom turned his head but kept his hands firm on Wilson's body. "He says he knows the car that did it...It was a yellow car."
Some dim impulse moved the policeman to look suspiciously at Tom.
"And what color's your car?"
"It's a blue car, a coupe."
"We've come straight from New York," I said. (148)
This is the entirety of Nick's actions at the crime scene. He's a smart guy—does he really not know what Tom is doing here?
ReplyDelete1) This chapter just makes me like every character less because of this fight. Tom, Daisy and Gatsby are truly acting like children and it is just infuriating. Tom is trying to cause trouble by confronting Gatsby, though it took me by surprise that Tom had enough guts and bravery to straight out confront Gatsby. But he is acting childish anyhow with his off topic racist rant and his hypocrisies and he just keeps going even after he realizes his stupidity for a split second: “Flushed with his impassioned gibberish, he saw himself standing alone on the last barrier of civilization.” And then he goes on to point out his supposed reasons as to why he is not like Gatsby: “I know I’m not very popular. I don’t give big parties. I suppose you’ve got to make your house into a pigsty in order to have friends—in the modern world.’ Angry as I was, as we all were, I was tempted to laugh every time he opened his mouth. The transition from libertine to prig was so complete.” I just love Nick’s instinct reaction to laugh at Tom’s idiocy and infantilism.
2) I still don’t think Daisy is worth Gatsby’s time or effort, just because she doesn’t have any defining qualities that make her worthwhile to me. She’s superficial, insincere (as we’ve talked about in class), gossipy, and to me she’s still a little girl that gets upset when life doesn’t go her way. She’s indecisive and she’s a pushover. Gatsby tells Tom “Daisy’s leaving you’. ‘Nonsense.’ ‘I am though,’ she said with a visible effort.” Other people are able to tell her how she’s feeling and there’s no argument about it from her.
3) I really cannot stand a single character in this book anymore, even our narrator who really just to me, comes off as an emotional-less board. He’s the nice decent guy of the book but that’s all there is to him. All the other characters are practically children, just spoiled little brats arguing.
Daisy—"superficial, insincere...a little girl." I've always thought of her as just a girl, even if she is an unhappily married woman, as Tanja has called her. Indeed, Molly's comment, "She doesn't have any defining qualities that make her worthwhile," strikes me as being pretty darn accurate.
Delete1. This chapter is the big climax and all the truth comes out. The beginning of the chapter when they are all at the Buchanan's and then go into New York really stuck with me. It reminds me of when Tom and Nick went to New York with Myrtle. Myrtle goes behind Wilson's back and kisses Tom, when Wilson leaves the room to get some chairs. Daisy kisses Gatsby, when Tom left the room to get some drinks. Then they go to New York. Myrtle stays in her cheap and tacky apartment. Tom, Nick, Daisy, Gatsby, and Jordan stay in a luxurious and classy suite. I also thought it was ironic that during the big argument of Gatsby, Tom, and Daisy, there's a wedding going on downstairs. They can hear the wedding music, but upstairs Daisy and Gatsby's marriage is falling apart. Daisy says as she looks at Tom blindly, "Why--how could I love him-- possibly?" Another part of the chapter that stuck with me was when we finally see Daisy's daughter, but I hate that scene. I hate the way Daisy treats her daughter. She said, "That's because your mother wanted to show you off. You dream, you. You absolute little dream." Daisy sounds so superficial. She just wants to show off her daughter likes she's an object.
ReplyDelete2. I don't like Daisy. I used to like her, but she's really showed her "true" self through her actions in this chapter. I really dislike the way she treats her daughter, "an absolute little dream." She treats her daughter like an object. And I really don't like the way she treats Tom. When Gatsby says, "You never loved him", Daisy simply replies to Gatsby with Tom standing right there, "I never loved him." She doesn't even say it to Tom's face. She says it to Gatsby as if Tom isn't there.
3. I've had enough of basically everyone, too. But I'm probably the most sick of Gatsby. He's supposed to be this charming and classy guy; however, he's an arrogant butthead. He rubs in Tom's face how Daisy never loved him. He is fighting over Daisy as if she's an object that he desperately wants to win. He has no respect for Tom or Daisy.
1. The moment that struck me most was the car accident. This is such an understated book, and I really wasn’t expecting anything like that to happen. It’s similar to an episode of the show Mad Men when (spoiler alert I suppose) a normal office party ends with someone getting their foot run over by a lawnmower. I didn’t see either of those things coming, yet they both worked very well in their respective stories. I especially liked Tom’s reaction to seeing the accident. When they first notice it he says, “Wreck! That’s good. Wilson’ll have a little business at last.” “There’s some bad trouble here,” he says “excitedly” when he realizes the gravity of the situation. He’s exhilarated by the potential tragedy unfolding before him. This is extremely ironic given what he’s about to find out. When he realizes who was hit, we see him truly injured by something for the first time. Nick says, “ In a little while I heard a low husky sob, and saw that tears were overflowing down his face.” Then we hear from Tom: “ ‘The God damned coward!’ he whimpered. ‘He didn’t even stop his car.’” I never thought that we’d see Tom whimpering about anything. He obviously cared about Myrtle despite his lack of visible emotion and the fact that he broke her nose.
ReplyDelete2. Daisy is now my least favorite character in the book by far. Tom has shown a less dickish side to himself (albeit after getting excited about a car accident), and Gatsby has just become sort of pathetic and sad in my opinion. I felt bad for both of them (Gatsby more so), but I feel no sympathy for Daisy. Earlier I might have described her as opportunistic, but that would imply that she has a mind of her own. She was never going to pick whom to be with. Whoever won the argument in the Plaza suite would get her. She agrees with whoever is talking, and then flips to agree with the other person instantly. Gatsby says, “You never loved him,” and Daisy says, “I never loved him.” Then, Tom starts talking and Daisy decides, “Even alone I can’t say I never loved Tom.” Then Gatsby says that Daisy is leaving Tom, and Daisy agrees. Then Tom brings up Gatsby’s past, and Daisy decides that she’s staying. As useless a human being as she is, she obviously has a great influence over these people. She doesn’t seem to care though.
3. As I said in the pervious answer, I’ve had enough of Daisy. She acts like a moron and then lets other people deal with the consequences. First she strings Gatsby along, and then she hits Myrtle with the car and lets Gatsby take the fall for it. Nick asks if Daisy was driving the car, and Gatsby says, “Yes, but of course I’ll say I was.” Gatsby still cares about her. He’s creeping outside her house to make sure she’s okay while she’s inside sharing dinner with her husband whom she’s decided to stay with.
I found this chapter a little bit sickening. Obviously, this moment was inevitable as the truth was going to come out, but everything unravels within a few hours and every story line and affair becomes absolute chaos. To be honest, I find everyone's reactions to all of the realizations the craziest part of this chapter. Every character who finds something out, who discovers the truth about their marriage or affairs that are being had is absolutely taken aback and cannot believe it to be true. This surprised me, as all of the affairs and problems in the marriages are so obvious. The scene that jumped out at me was the scene with Myrtle at the window staring down at Tom, Nick, and Jordan. “It was an expression I had often seen on women’s faces[…]I realized that her eyes, wide with jealous terror, were fixed not on Tom, but on Jordan Baker, whom she took to be his wife.” Later on in the chapter, as we all know, this along with the knowledge of her moving away leads her to throw herself in front of a car. This scene stuck with me because of all the things that unfold in the chapter, Myrtle’s misunderstanding is by far the least significant. And yet, it causes her have the most drastic reaction in the entire book thus far. The least significant thing, and Myrtle kills herself over it. I think that this particular part of the chapter signifies that even the smallest of events is unraveling and causing chaos.
ReplyDeleteI don’t like Daisy after reading this chapter. As complex as her relationships with both Tom and Gatsby are, when you whittle it down it seems to me that she is just trying to please both without making a decision. She thinks she can get away with keeping her marriage, which I think she wants to do, but still be with Gatsby at the same time. And when the problem comes up in the hotel between Gatsby and Tom, she keeps saying that she wants to leave. “Please let’s all go home. Why don’t we all go home?” “Oh please, let’s get out.” She tries to run away from the conversation, from the problem at hand. She thinks this will work and she’ll never have to confront it. And for that reason I find her to be naïve in thinking she could get away with that, or even a coward for knowing she couldn’t and yet shying away anyways.
I’ve most definitely had enough of Gatsby. At this point in the novel, I simply hate Gatsby. He’s very self-centered, only worried about Daisy because it correlates to how he himself feels. He and Daisy are responsible for killing a woman for Christ’s sake, and it barely even crosses his mind an hour or so later. “’She stood it pretty well.’ He spoke as if Daisy’s reaction was the only thing that mattered.” And still, he talks to Nick as if they’re pals, when in actuality Gatsby has used Nick to create this entire mess in the first place.
1. This is my favorite chapter of the book so far. The moment that stood out to me the most was when Daisy said she never loved Tom. I think that Gatsby is pressuring Daisy into saying this:" Just tell him the truth-that you never loved him-and it's all wiped out forever". After Daisy says she never loved Tom, Fitzgerald includes the music from the wedding drifting up into their room. Like Erin said, as Tom and Daisy's marriage disintegrates, a new marriage is happening downstairs. My favorite part about this scene though is Tom's reaction. Even though Tom is hypocritical throughout this chapter, I found that I started feeling more sympathetic towards him. Even though he snaps out of it quickly, for a moment he is truly upset: "'Not that day I carried you down from the Punch Bowl to keep your shoes dry?' There was a husky tenderness in his tone....'Daisy?'".
ReplyDeleteAlso, I just have to bring up that its Nick's birthday. I love that he realizes he is 30 and has no significant relationship with anyone, while everyone else is destroying their relationships with the people they love.
2. I don't think Daisy is worth it. I see Daisy as completely fake, and how she treats the accident is very disturbing to me. In the beginning of the chapter, when Daisy wants to show off her daughter to Gatsby, she ignores the girl: "'Where's Daddy?'"
"'She doesn't look like her father,' explained Daisy. 'She looks like me'".
Daisy seems totally self-centered here, and it is a pretty bad glimpse at her as a mom.
3. I'm annoyed by everyone at this point, but I dislike Gatsby and Daisy the most. Jordan's behavior is the same as its always been, and to an extent so is Tom's. But all the mysterious charm that surrounded Gatsby really falls away in this chapter. He is completely absorbed in the dream world that he has created for him and Daisy, that he can't accept anything else. He seems devastated when Daisy said she loved him and Tom: "'You loved me too(italics)'". Then at the end he refuses to leave because he thinks Tom will hurt Daisy, even though its clear that won't happen.
I thought that this chapter was very climactic as we see confrontation between Daisy, Gatsby and Tom as well as the gruesome death of Myrtle. The first time I read the scene I was very distraught, mostly because of Fitzgerald’s detail of things “swing loose like a flap” and that Myrtle “had choked a little in giving up the tremendous vitality she had stored so long.” The death of Myrtle is very upsetting to me because she was brought into this world of wealth and East Eggness (at her own will, but still) and it just spit her out, lifeless. Myrtle was Tom’s mistress, but she has the least blame, in my opinion, in the mess that is the relationship between Tom and Daisy.
ReplyDeleteI still don’t think Daisy was worth Gatsby’s time and effort. She caused a great amount of trouble for Gatsby by hitting and killing Myrtle. Gatsby feels the only way he can be happy is if she is in his life. He has put Daisy on such a high pedestal that I think she would never be able to live up to and this would only cause him more unhappiness. When Daisy says that she actually did love Tom once, Gatsby is visibly upset and when Tom about how Daisy will never forget their relationship, “the words seemed to bite physically into Gatsby.” This chapter made me like Daisy a little bit because she was honest about her feelings and her intentions, and she seemed very present to me.
To be honest, I have not had enough of any of the characters. This chapter, for me, increased their intrigue and the amount of disaster and chaos in this chapter just makes me want to see how they will all react. At this point, they have all shown that none of them are truly good people, but that makes them more interesting to me. Watching them get more and more dysfunctional is fascinating and hard to pull away from. In a way, its like when Tom was excited by the accident. Somehow, terrible people and disgusting events are both absorbing and alluring.
1. This chapter really focuses on the weaknesses of these seemingly strong men. Tom cannot stand the thought of loosing control of the people (women, really) is his life. A memorable moment is when he kept looking back to make sure Gatsby and Daisy were still following him to the Plaza, "[Nick] thinks he was afraid they would dart down a side street and out of his life forever." Gatsby's desperation for Daisy is relevant when he pressures her to tell Tom that she never loved him. It's gone so far, that even passive Daisy found the power to rebel saying to Gatsby, "Oh, you want too much!...I love you now--isn't that enough? I can't help what's past."
ReplyDelete2. I agree with Jenny, that Daisy has done more harm than good to Gatsby, but I do not think that that is her fault. Gatsby does ask too much of her, and she is rightfully confused on how to feel. An important moment concerning Daisy was when Nick and Gatsby were talking about her voice: "'She's got an indiscreet voice,' I remarked. 'It's full of-----'
'Her voice is full of money,' [Gatzby] said suddenly."
Gatsby knows who Daisy is and where she came from. He isn't as blind as he often seems. I still do not think Daisy is worth the effort, but he certainly thinks so.
3. Even though I was in love with Jay Gatsby from the beginning...he's driving me crazy in this last chapter. He is constand posing for everyone, trying to seal all cracks in his story. It's exhausting. Gatsby no longer is strong and in control. He is weak and desperate, qualities that are hard to take for 20 pages of reading. The reason why it's so painful, is because he still believes that he is the most important character. He thinks he is Daisy's lover and protector. The saddest moment is at the very end, when Nick "walked away and left him stand there in the moonlight--watching over nothing."
OH and by the way-- my parents so the production you're talking about! They absolutely loved every minute of it. Fitzgerald's writing really comes alive when read aloud, as we see in class whenever it's read aloud.
ReplyDelete1. This chapter was an explosion of action and drama. With thing heating up with Gatsby and Tom finally realizing there might be more between Daisy and Gatsby, Fitzgerald tightens the tension and releases it in an explosive way that is unexpected but very enjoyable. Gatsby stood out in this chapter more than any other character. Usually portrayed as a cool and calm character his love for Daisy changes his whole mood, especially around Tom. The scene that sticks out most for me is the shouting match in the fancy suite. Seeing Gatsby that excited and angry was a shock,"Gatsby sprang to his feet, vivid with excitement."She never loved you, do you hear?" he cried." We see another side of Gatsby in this chapter that is brought about by love.
ReplyDelete2. I still dislike Daisy. I feel as though she didn't have the confidence to stand up for what she believed. I think the dramatic confusion wore away at her resolve until she could not longer pick between Tom or Gatsby. "'You're revolting,' said Daisy." She spoke these words directly at Tom while still at the end of the chapter we see her in his house like nothing has changed.
3. I dislike Daisy the most. I mean she just killed Myrtle! Now Tom is moronic and has no self control but he has shown signs of that the entire book while Daisy is changed by this conflict between Gatsby and Tom, and she isn't changed for the better. "Her frightened eyes told that whatever intentions, whatever courage she had had, were definitely gone." Daisy needs to get her head straight before she hurts any one else.
1. In this chapter Myrtles death really got to me. She was just so desperate for Tom's attention, which unfortunately led to her death. The scene where Myrtle was looking out the window at Tom, Jordan, and Nick was very upsetting. Nick said, "In one of the windows over the garage the curtains had been moved aside a little, and Myrtle Wilson was peering down at the car...I realized that her eyes, wide with jealous terror, were fixed not on Tom, but on Jordan Baker, whom she took to be his wife." This "realization" that Myrtle had was what led her to run at the car Daisy and Gatsby were in. I find it so sad that the simplest misunderstanding can lead to an ending this profound.
ReplyDelete2. I started out loving Daisy in the beginning of the book, but now I absolutely hate her. In no way is Daisy worth all the effort that Gatsby went through, but the past Daisy, the Daisy that Gatsby fell in love with, was worth it. Daisy seemed so childish and selfish when Gatsby began to tell Tom about their affair. After Gatsby began to tell Tom, Daisy said, "Please don't!" she interrupted helplessly. "Please lets all go home. Why don't we all go home." It frustrates me that Daisy chooses NOW to express her indecision and tell Gatsby that she loves both him and Tom. Daisy seems to think that with one spoken word she can just forget that everything has happened and move on. She lives her life in blissful oblivion and cannot handle when there is a kink in her dreamland.
3. This quote really struck me. This was the point in time where Nick really began to realize what world he was really a part of now. I have gotten quite tired of Gatsby. I started out being quite charmed by Gatsby because he seemed so amazing in comparison to every description that we had of Tom. However, now Gatsby is an absolutely absurd character. I hate how he thinks that he knows everything about Daisy and that he has the right to speak for her, like when Gatsby says, "She never loved you, do you hear? She only married you because I was poor and she was tired of waiting for me. It was a terrible mistake, but in her heart she never loved any one except me!" This quote is just completely outrageous to me. Gatsby is almost worshipping Daisy as an idol and assumes that she feels the exact way about him.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete1) So much happened in this chapter in so little time that it was overwhelming. In two chapters, our opinions of Gatsby, Daisy, Nick and Tom have all changed incredibly. Gatsby seems to have brought down his parade of wealth and happiness and seems satisfied with living with Daisy. As time progresses, we realize that Gatsby has been faking all interest in Nick, just to get to Daisy. Now, this story has gone from a simple trip to New York to a disastrous series of events that don’t have any visible happy ending on the horizon. All of the secrets that these people have built their lives around are crashing down on top of them. “Wreck!” said Tom. “That’s good. Wilson’ll have a little business at last.” This line stuck out to me because it completely captures Tom’s obliviousness to what is about to happen. Everything that he loves in life is about to be stripped away from him and he ignorantly prances around like a prince. “I walked away and left him standing there in the moonlight — watching over nothing.” Nick has had enough. He has been played and manipulated and is tired of the drama and complications that comes with living with these people. Nick doesn’t care enough to tell Gatsby that he’s wasting him time, and turns his back on him.
ReplyDelete2) I still have no idea what to make of Daisy. Clearly there is some appeal to her because of Gatsby’s obsession, but she hasn’t done anything to get my attention. “They weren’t happy, and neither of them had touched the chicken or the ale — and yet they weren’t unhappy either. There was an unmistakable air of natural intimacy about the picture”. Daisy has been telling Gatsby that she loves him and when it’s time to completely burn the bridge between her and Tom she can’t do it. Now she’s having dinner and an intimate moment with him after revealing her affair? I’m very confused by her and haven’t quite made up my mind.
3) Daisy and Tom. Both characters are laughably fake and dramatic, and both act like victims when the mess that they made needs to be cleaned up. I feel a bit of sympathy for Tom in that he’s losing everything he “loves”, but the fact that he is in no way likeable makes it easy to lose that sympathy.
1. The moment that really stuck out to me was the last page of the chapter. After 32 pages of explosive reactions, revelations, and crazy incidents a lot of things struck me but I thought the last bit of Tom and Daisy was especially striking. After everything, Nick sees that "Daisy and Tom were sitting opposite each other at the kitchen table, with a plate of cold fried chicken between them, and two bottles of ale. He was talking intently across the table at her, and in his earnestness his hand had fallen upon and covered her own. Once in a while she looked up at him and nodded in agreement" (145). The fact that they seem so calm, eating southern food (where it all began for them) and still holding hands it just is a mixture of odd and right. It strikes because even after everything that had transpired in the past few hours, they were still able to sit at the table together and talk normally which shows that their affection for each other runs a little deeper than we might have given them credit for.
ReplyDelete2. I think Daisy has gone off the deep end right now. Her worlds have come crashing down all too quickly and she's just insane. She was the childish Daisy in this chapter and it's a shame that that side of her is the last image we get of her. It was as if she didn't realize what she was doing until it was all too late and then it didn't matter anymore: "She hesitated. Her eyes fell on Jordan and me with a sort of appeal, as though she realized at last what she was doing -- and as though she had never, all along, intended doing anything at all. But it was done now. It was too late" (132).
3. I've had enough of Gatsby. The way he forces Daisy to say those things to Tom like "I never loved him" (132) it's just too aggressive and brutal. She should say those things because she means it (and without an audience) not because her boyfriend was forcing her to. And the way he's so nonchalant about being an accessory to murder drove me crazy because he's supposed to be compassionate, and caring, and understanding and whatever else Nick described his smile to be like and he was just heartless and terrifying. "It's better that the shock should all come at once. She stood it pretty well" (143) it's like it was some sort of test to see if she could stomach such a horrid act.
1.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter is reminiscent of a modern day soap opera, albeit with a Fitzgerald flavoring. Here we see the character's emotions unveiled, the deceiving gold guild of this world removed, exposing the reality of the situation, both to the reader and to our untrustworthy narrator, Nick. This was the chapter that I could not stop reading as it took me on a turbulent ride. The first surprise being the little get-together that Daisy calls together, Gatsby included, a meeting planned to bring forth that which lies behind the metaphorical curtain. I was quite surprised that Daisy would have the conviction to do such a thing, considering that so far we have simply seen her being tossed around by the whims of others. Now she chooses to act, bringing Tom and Gatsby together, and telling Gatsby, "that she loved him," directly in front of Tom.
2.
I find that placing a value on Daisy extremely difficult, for how can someone determine whether she is worth Gatsby's efforts? Certainly to him such efforts are worth it, for he is in love, perhaps not with Daisy but the dream that she represents, the time in his life when he was truly happy. Daisy is a vital part of Gatsby's life, she is the goal that he has been striving for, something that he values above all else. Was she worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars that Tom paid for the pearl necklace, as well as probably an equally expensive wedding ring? Each of these men have done much for something so intangible: a grasp at happiness. They both fight for her in the end, Gatsby claiming, "she never loved anyone except me," and Tom staking his equal claim.
3.
I read this as the beginning to Nick's disenchantment with the world around him, the world that he moved to because he believed it to be exciting, the place to live. Now he is beginning to see the world beneath the veil, and beginning to come out of his mid life crisis craving for excitement. I would not say I am tired of these characters, but craving for some sort of justice to be wrought, a climax to bring a fulfilling ending to this story. But knowing Fitzgerald, such a hope is in vain.
1. This chapter engrossed me so completely that, before I had realized it, I had finished the entire book! Up until now, the novel had taken somewhat of a more relaxed attitude towards any of Gatsby's misdeeds. Most of the time, everyone is having fun, but the central group of characters is somewhat unsettled. Now the tension flares up unrelentingly, and Fitzgerald hits us with one punch after the other (somewhat reminiscent of Tom's nose-breaking move). Despite Daisy's diminishingly plaintitive efforts to calm everyone during the verbal cage match at the hotel, and Nick's efforts to get everyone to leave, everything pours out at once. One of the most striking moments during this is the description of Daisy when she finally rejects Tom: "She hesitated. Her eyes fell on Jordan and me with a sort of appeal, as though the realized at last what she was doing--and as though she had never, all along, intended doing anything at all." (132)
ReplyDelete2. I think Daisy's weakness and lack of resolve comes out in this chapter most of all, not only in the passage quoted above, but throughout. It comes as a real shock to the reader when her little smiles and pleas with Tom fail to work anymore. "I can't stand this! Oh, please let's get out." (133) She locks up when faced with the prospect of an accident and chooses to run down Myrtle rather than try to evade the other car (one cringes to think of what Jordan would have done), and then flees the scene of the crime.
3. I really have had quite enough of both Tom and Gatsby by the end of the chapter, I can understand Nick's consternation at being forced to sit through the whole affair, and watch the two other men try to manipulate Daisy. In comparison to this, trading bonds and stocks must seem like the cat's meow. The men dominate the room with their personalities; it's stifling both in a temperature and ego sense. While Tom realizes that once Daisy reciprocates his actions, his marriage falls apart, and Gatsby exploits this weakness to its fullest extent.
1. This chapter shocked me in 10th grade and again this year. Everything happens so quickly. It is astounding everyone's reactions to all of the insane things that happen. From Tom finding out about Gatsby and Daisy to Myrtle's death to Tom and Daisy alone in the house at the end, every image was particularly striking, swift and shocking. The simplicity with which Hemingway describes Myrtle's death stood out the most to me. He describes every other image in the book with unparalleled description yet he simply skims over this "minor detail". She is hit, no detail, no pause, no emotion, she is hit and then it's over. The only real feeling put into the description of her death is when Hemingway says "Myrtle Wilson, her life violently extinguished,"
ReplyDelete2. I had a moment where I respected her, where I saw what is it Gatsby sees in her. When she had the strength and conviction to stand up to Tom, to be free with Gatsby. She acted as Tom had yet she was more respectable for it. I saw the woman who first met Gatsby, the free young spirit not shackled down or oppressed by Tom's brutality. All of that respect and understanding of Gatsby's feelings, however, crumbled as she ran back into Tom's overbearing arms. "Her frightened eyes told me that whatever intentions, whatever courage she had had, were definitely gone." She gave up, she lost her fight and along with it, all of my respect and understanding.
3. Every person except for Jordan, surprisingly. Tom is still a total asshole, Daisy is pathetic and week, Gatsby is painfully naive and Nick is just all around extremely frustrating. Jordan is the only one who I actually respect at this point. Even though she is a notorious liar and cheat, she is the most sincere in this chapter/book. Nick says that Jordan, "...was too wise ever to carry well-forgotten dreams from age to age." Jordan is the only one not holding on to the past, trying to re-live her glory days or her idea of a perfect world. She is not in search of the next great adventure, her life is a great adventure. She is sincere in her lying and cheating ways, she is who she is and unlike every one else in this novel, she does not try to change that.
1. The part of the chapter that really came out to me and jumped was the part when nick finally acknowledges his dislike for Gatsby. Or at least, his dislike for Gatsby at that particular time. “I disliked him o much by this time that I didn’t find It necessary to tell him he was wrong.” If I am correct, this is the first time that Nick has actually said outright that he disliked Gatsby. He HAD said before that he was starting to distrust him a little or understand why Jordan would, etc., but never actually, save for the very first pages of the book, said he disliked Gatsby.
ReplyDelete2. I feel like Daisy and the perfect image of her have fallen apart, literally. She is insane, unreliable, dependent, and to be honest, a little bit moody and undecided. “”Oh, you want too much!” […] “I did love him once—but I loved you too.”” I feel like she isn’t worth it, still. She undependable, and it seems that she probably didn’t even love Gatsby like he loved her. "She hesitated. Her eyes fell on Jordan and me with a sort of appeal, as though she realized at last what she was doing -- and as though she had never, all along, intended doing anything at all. But it was done now. It was too late"
3. To be frank, I’m starting to get a little annoyed with Gatsby. I mean, sure, I’m really irked with Daisy and Tom as well, superficial as they are, and Jordan doesn’t really strike me either way, but Gatsby…. Gatsby is supposed to be this great person, and I feel like Fitzgerald’s/Nick’s first description of him threw off our objectivity and caused us to like him more than we should have. When he made Daisy say those things, to “Just tell [Tom] the truth—that you never loved him—and it’s all wiped out forever”, I was just thinking to myself ‘why are you doing this Gatsby?’ And the way that he still covers up/ plans to cover up for Daisy just bothers me. Even after Nick tells him that there will be no problem, Gatsby still worries over her. I can understand attachment, but Gatsby takes it too far, and he is starting to annoy me.
1. This chapter is a pretty depressing section to read. We feel just as uncomfortable reading it as Nick feels in the situation. The scene that stays with me is when Nick finds Gatsby lurking in the bushes outside Gatsby's house. Nick seems totally disillusioned about Gatsby at this point. He says that the act of Gatsby standing there "seemed like a despicable occupation." By the end of this chapter I was done with Gatsby as-well. He has lost all of his charm and charisma, and just looks like a desperate man lurking outside Daisy's house.
ReplyDelete2. Daisy is the weakest character in the novel by far. As Gatsby and Tom fire back at each other in the hotel room, she sides with whoever spoke last. "I did love him once -- but I loved you too." I don't think that she even knows who she wants to be with; she lets Tom and Gatsby decide for her in the hotel room.
3. By the end of the chapter I was done with Gatsby. He loses all dignity during this chapter. In the last line of the chapter, Nick leaves Gatsby "watching over nothing." That's exactly what is left of Gatsby and Daisy's relationship - nothing - but he still tries to cling onto the hope that things will end in his favor.
‘“Her voice is full of money,” he said suddenly./That was it. I’d never understood before. It was full of money—that was the inexhaustible charm that rose and fell in it, the jingle of it, the cymbal’s song of it…High in a white palace the king’s daughter, the golden girl…’ This quote stayed with me throughout the whole chapter as I read it, and every time Daisy spoke I tried to imagine this jingle, and to understand its charm. However, most of Daisy’s comments, “She’s got an indiscrete voice” and actions, “As he left the room again she got up and went over to Gatsby and pulled his face down, kissing him on the mouth” were telling of her underlying, “secret” intentions, which gave them a sense of falseness and brought out the “child” in her even more. Daisy’s voice is the one of someone who never had to earn any money and Nick and Gatsby both realize, because they feel the charm of it. Neither though, dares to think disapprovingly of it for too long for fear that reality won’t please them. This charm that people feel in her voice is the irrational, unexplainable charm that most people feel towards the wealthy, not rich who have made their money though, but ones with old money; rich who’s lives seem unrealistically cool and relaxed, and who’s voices don’t betray any preoccupation of costs or anything really. Right before this comment about Daisy’s voice, “Pammy” is displayed and we see that she is not one of her parent’s priorities; when Daisy demands, “Who wants to go to town?” Pammy doesn’t even cross her mind. Daisy has no worries in the world, because of course the nanny, who is practically this child’s mother, will take care of her.
ReplyDeleteDaisy disappoints me. Her description of her in her younger (teenage) years was that of someone who yes, was careless and did what she wanted, but who was also witty. For example, she never drank with her friends, so she was able to keep her perfect popular reputation, because she was always sober while all her friends wasted. I think in the last chapter we read, her child like characteristics stand out more than ever and we see that she really was raised as “a beautiful little fool.” In that aspect I feel sympathetic towards daisy, because all she was ever taught was to be rich and spend money like a “golden girl”. However, her display of no interest in education or trying to better her situation is repulsing and makes her weak, for her only advantages over people are beauty and money. Daisy does not know how to think and decide things for herself and I think that is why she bothers me so much in the Gatsby/Tom confrontation scene. All she does in there is beg for them to stop fighting or beg them to leave, but it’s all a constant plea or forced lie. With the truth completely revealed, if I were her I would stand up, explain everything and make a decision, but she sits there miserably…Daisy reminds me of the dog sitting on the table in Myrtle’s apartment watching the party.
I have really had enough of Gatsby. I think that his desperate attempt to rip apart Daisy and Tom’s marriage is very improper in the way he goes about it. Yes, Daisy and Tom’s cheating is not something that can be called proper, but it further shows a complete lack of manners and morals for Gatsby to expose Daisy like he did, and try to impose ideas like, “she never loved you [Tom].” I also find the fact that Gatsby hides in the bushes outside of the Buchanan’s house pathetic. It shows Gatsby has more criminal like tendencies (he’s nervous and always watching) and misinterprets social situations frequently, unlike Nick who tells him, “He won’t touch her.”
1.) What stood out to me the most was how indignant an attitude Tom had throughout the whole chapter. I feel for the most part every character stayed in their normal role, but we saw a completely different side of Tom. He is a vulnerable push-over. “‘Open the whiskey, Tom,’ she ordered, ‘and I’ll make you a mint julep. Then you won’t seem so stupid to yourself....Look at the mint!’” This is Daisy, the wife he doesn’t care for even a drop, telling him what to do and humiliating him, yet he doesn’t protest against it. Earlier at their house, Daisy tells him to make them cold drinks and Tom goes without hesitation although I know they have enough money to have the butler do it. Although all these characters are extremely annoying with dishonesty, I love to watch Tom unfold what he really feels. I really love how Fitzgerald decided to not give too much away so I really didn’t see any of it coming, Nick does a good job at it too. and Then Tom starts sobbing for Myrtle, the mistress he punched in the nose! It was very odd that Tom didn’t over react and hit or punch anyone like he usually does when he feels anything small as it may be gets out of his control.
ReplyDelete2.) I completely agree with Cam on Daisy’s reason for never leaving Tom. I thought this since the beginning and now I have proof that Daisy wouldn’t leave Tom because there was actual love involved in their marriage. But like many have agreed on, she is not worth fighting for and she is weak. In the beginning I was very optimistic about Daisy because she seemed full of what she pretended to be, sweet and bright. Now Daisy has gone from rosy glow golden girl to the killer of her husband’s mistress. LIke Elizabeth said, she won’t take responsibility for it because Gatsby said he would. Everything about Daisy frustrates me because that is not what my parents have taught me to be like. I just know she could do so much better, just like Jordan thinks so. “‘What a low, vulgar girl!’ ‘I don’t care!’ cried Daisy...” But unfortunately Daisy doesn’t care about her lack of real sophistication. And she also treats her daughter like a toy, a joke or a game. Talks to her in second person which to me shows a great detachment and so far is not going to help her daughter.
3.)Although I’ve seen worse husbands, I think Tom needs some sort of recognition for essentially taking the purpose out of Daisy’s life and then getting angry that someone else makes her happy. It just doesn’t make sense why Tom would stay with her and neglect her and hurt her. He barely pays attention to her and takes no initiative to make things better until he feel she’s out of his grip. It makes me so angry when he doesn’t appreciate what or who he has or simply isn’t coherent with anyone. Maybe perhaps his attitude towards Nick never changes but he never tries to treat him any better. “‘Of course it matters, I’m going to take better care of you from now on.’” This is Tom in him attempt to win back Daisy after years of completely stripping her of her dignity. I can’t imagine what Daisy feels but Tom is just sick. Even after this whole dinner we didn’t see a single tear or frown from Tom until he found out Myrtle died. Tom isn’t going to take better care of Daisy, even if he wants to, he doesn’t love her enough to put the effort.
1) I feel like this book has reached a really hopeless point. I feel that now, more than ever, there is no real chance at redemption. Part of the chapter that really stuck with me was the scene at the very end, when Daisy and Tom were sitting at the table together. Tom was talking, “and in his earnestness his hand had fallen upon and covered her own” in a way that I feel smothers Daisy. This shows how the repetition of their marriage has formed habits within them that have not died and that a part of that empty love lives on. I think that the fact that “they weren’t happy, and neither of them had touched the chicken or the ale – and yet they weren’t unhappy either” shows once again just how emotionally vacant these people are.
ReplyDelete2) I feel that, for Gatsby, she was definitely worth it. She has given him a specific feeling of superiority, one that he could never get just by throwing parties and being a man in a mansion. He is absolutely fired up by his notion that Daisy loves him and always has and it is this that keeps him going at a point in the book where so many others have burned out. He has always had people that were fascinated by him or that looked up to him because of his riches but never has he felt that he had such a specific and determinable source of love, and “in her heart she never loved any one except” Gatsby.
3) I am fairly sick of Gatsby at this point because I think he is intolerably pretentious. He is a self obsessed child and, although it may be kind of sweet that he wants to check on Daisy, I have had enough of him imposing his image on everyone else and his endless rants about how Daisy has always loved him. I don’t even know how to phrase it but he is just really bothering me right now. To be fair, though, I am fairly pissed at everyone in the book at this point so Gatsby is not too much of an outlier.
1. The most amazing scene, as I'm sure almost everyone else has already concurred, is the scene in the hotel room. This is the culmination of all the craziness that we have witnessed so far in the book. Everything comes out, including Daisy's not so great relationship with Tom, her love for Gatsby, her inability to leave Tom, Gatsby's past crimes, and a whole slew of other unhealthy emotional disturbances.
ReplyDelete2. No, Daisy really shouldn't be as coveted as she is. It just seems like Gatsby had fallen madly in love five years ago with a girl who is no longer the same person. In some ways, he is living a dream, or at least trying to. He is practically pretending to be living five years in the past, trying to pretend Daisy never married Tom. In the eyes of Gatsby, his life would be incomplete if he could not obtain his lost love. Of course, who could blame him for thinking dreams do come true. It was pretty remarkable that he was able to amass such a fortune in such a small amount of time, so I can see why he so heartily believed he could have Daisy. I think that this whole aspect of the book (the whole "I want my wildest dreams to come true") does a remarkable job of illustrating the American dream.
3. At this point, every single character has become irrevocably atrocious except for one person. Jordan is the only person yet who hasn't become crazy. Nick and she are seemingly the only two sane people in the entire novel. Unlike the others, Daisy isn't caught up in the strife, she simply floats along side.